To each their own

[Cougini5591]

Leach literally had to revamp a program. I was just happy he was willing to take on the project. 87-43 overall and 10 straight bowl games at Tech. Results.

Did it fall off the last year or two at WSU? Yes.

The former HC had one okay season (where they played 15 games) and that's all to show for it. Couldn't have been more whelmed on a hire. And then killed any leftover positive momentum the program had. I didn't think he'd make it to the end of his contract (albeit, for the on-field portion).

If you're calling Rolo stubborn on game strategy when he was fired with us sitting 4 & 3... with Leach bailing and a year of covid "realignment"...

We were actually 4 & 5 at one point in 2013... losing

17-55 against Stanford
24-52 against Oregon State
38-62 against Oregon
21-55 against Arizona State

I think it's ludicrous to come out and condemn Rolovich when he gave us a Bowl Team last year in his 2nd season (more like his first) and coming off the Tutti Fruiti covid shut down.

Double ludicrous to worship Leach while at the start of his dynasty looked similar to where we finished with Coach Wulff.

I'm not saying Rolovich was Leach in the making, but I am awestruck that there seem to be so many thinking he sucked.

 

[BiggsCoug]

If you're calling Rolo stubborn on game strategy when he was fired with us sitting 4 & 3... with Leach bailing and a year of covid "realignment"...

We were actually 4 & 5 at one point in 2013... losing

17-55 against Stanford
24-52 against Oregon State
38-62 against Oregon
21-55 against Arizona State

I think it's ludicrous to come out and condemn Rolovich when he gave us a Bowl Team last year in his 2nd season (more like his first) and coming off the Tutti Fruiti covid shut down.

Double ludicrous to worship Leach while at the start of his dynasty looked similar to where we finished with Coach Wulff.

I'm not saying Rolovich was Leach in the making, but I am awestruck that there seem to be so many thinking he sucked.

He sucked. Zero grasp of how thin the margin of error is at WSU. Held a complete sham and rigged qb competition. JDL wasn’t coached to play qb at all. Street ball player.

The guy invited fans to join him for beers. The worst idea ever. Imagine Shaw or Wilcox or Kelly posting on twitter to come join him for drinks. How bout Saban, Holtz, Meyer, insert any P5 football coach.

Completely over his head. Zero grasp of what it means to lead a multimillion dollar organization. This isn’t f’ing middle school football. C’mon down to the bar guys! Let’s get drunk! Holy f’ing tap dancing Moses. This was a Power 5 football coach.

But his players loved him!!! There were players that loved Wulff too. What does that tell you?

 

[Suudy]

It doesn;t matter how devout Rolo can "prove" that he is. No major religion, including the Catholics, have any tenet that opposes vaccines and specifically the COVID vaccine. So the religious exemption should be DOA and it always should have been DOA. No aborted fetuses were used to create the vaccine.

This isn't true. At least with respect to Catholicism.

From the NCBC:

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that a person may be required to refuse a medical intervention, including
a vaccination, if his or her informed conscience comes to this sure judgment. While the Catholic Church does
not prohibit the use of any vaccine, and generally encourages the use of safe and effective vaccines as a way of
safeguarding personal and public health, the following authoritative Church teachings demonstrate the
principled religious basis on which a Catholic may determine that he or she ought to refuse certain vaccines:
• Vaccination is not morally obligatory in principle and so must be voluntary.1
• There is a general moral duty to refuse the use of medical products, including certain vaccines, that
are produced using human cells lines derived from direct abortions. It is permissible to use such
vaccines only under certain case-specific conditions, based on a judgment of conscience.2
• A person’s informed judgments about the proportionality of medical interventions are to be
respected unless they contradict authoritative Catholic moral teachings.3
• A person is morally required to obey his or her sure conscience, even if it errs.4

Note the footnotes refer to the CDF document I linked earlier and the Catechsim of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches the primacy of conscience. CCC 1782:

1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral
decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be
prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."

The Church has clearly stated that while the COVID vaccine is morally permissible, it isn't morally obligated either. And one has a conscientious right to object to receiving the vaccine.

Now, with respect to your claim that no aborted children were used to create the vaccine, it depends on which vaccine and what you mean by "create." Both Moderna and Phizer used the HEK-293 cell line for testing, but do not use fetal stem cells during production. The J&J vaccine uses the PER.C6 line in manufacturing.

And he could not do his job without being vaccinated. So he has no case. Period.

I have only been addressing the sincerity of his convictions. While I do think the vaccine mandate was overbroad, it was the state policy, and reasonable accommodations were likely not possible here.

 

[PeteTheChop]

When players LOVE a coach... he's not a turd. Remember the days under Price? Do you know how many of the players at WSU considered him to be like a Dad/Uncle? Actually coming to him with their problems on and off the football field?

That's not a turd. That in no way compares to what and who you defined as a "turd" before.

The "turd coaches" that have been at WSU are pretty easy to pick. Rolo wasn't one of them.

The players liked Coach Wulff, too

 

[Suudy]

Problem here is understanding. The two most common vaccines in the US - the Pfizer and Moderna - were not "derived from aborted children." Aborted cells were in no way used in production of the vaccines. Some of those cells were used in early testing of the vaccines as a proof of concept for the mRNA delivery, but they aren't in the vaccine production itself. J&J actually used a fetal cell line for production, as did AstraZeneca, CanSino Biologics, and many of the other alternatives. THose cells have also been used in production of a lot of other vaccines, medications, and so many other kinds of testing that we probably couldn't even find all the products connected to them.

How do you define "derived"? Pfizer and Moderna used the HEK-293 cell during development, yes. And this puts it into a questionable category. Questionable enough that one's conscience permits one to refuse to cooperate even in the case of such remote cooperation as this.

And, where does one draw the line? Fetal stem cells can be derived from a healthy birth too - from placental or cord blood, for example. Would use of those cells also be out of bounds? If so, why?

I'm not aware of any objections here. The objection is because of the connection to direct abortion. For cord blood, the Church has long supported it.

Catholic Support for Ethically Acceptable Stem Cell Research

www.usccb.org

The issue isn't that it comes from children, but that it comes from children intentionally killed.

The whole concept is pretty surreal to me. Regardless of whether they originated from an adult, child, fetus, or zygote, all of the following are true:

• That person died well before I was born
• I had no hand in that person's death
• Those cells have been duplicated and regrown thousands of times, to the point that, while they originated from a person, they are not now and never were part of that person

This speak only to cooperation. The first point seems to me to be quite arbitrary. What if the cells came from a person that died last year? Does it become more permissible to more distant in time? The second seems irrelevant. Would you accept an organ transplant from which the organ was illegally harvested or trafficked? After all, you had no hand in their death.

I admit I can't find any objection to the third point. But I also can't find any relevance. Our own cells have "duplicated and regrown thousands of times" but do we say we "are not now and never were part of that person" we were 20 years ago? Are we constantly become different, distinct persons?

In light of those things, I don't see that there should be anything immoral about my use of the medication produced using those cells. Further, I don't see that the world (or the "greater good") benefits from not using that medication - quite the opposite in fact. An argument could be made - even if one opposes abortion - that use of these cells to create vaccines and medications serves the greater good and salvages something positive from the death.


What about the HeLa cell line - harvested from Henrietta Lacks without her consent, and used thousands of times over the last 70 years? It's estimated that the use of those cells has saved 10 million lives.

This is just the ends justifying the means.

Anyway...Rolo made his choice. He waited too long to file his religious exemption, and left no time for an appeal or reconsideration. Seems apparent that he didn't think he'd lose the job. He's far from the only state employee who reached the same conclusion, he's just the one who had the biggest paycheck.

He's also one that did not receive an exemption, when other Catholic employees have done so.

I think if the state is going to make an argument, it has to be that it denied the exemption because no reasonable accommodation was possible. I don't think the way to go is to challenge Rolo's sincerity in his religious objection.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

If you're calling Rolo stubborn on game strategy when he was fired with us sitting 4 & 3... with Leach bailing and a year of covid "realignment"...

We were actually 4 & 5 at one point in 2013... losing

17-55 against Stanford
24-52 against Oregon State
38-62 against Oregon
21-55 against Arizona State

I think it's ludicrous to come out and condemn Rolovich when he gave us a Bowl Team last year in his 2nd season (more like his first) and coming off the Tutti Fruiti covid shut down.

Double ludicrous to worship Leach while at the start of his dynasty looked similar to where we finished with Coach Wulff.

I'm not saying Rolovich was Leach in the making, but I am awestruck that there seem to be so many thinking he sucked.

I saw all I needed to see Game 4 against USC. The guy couldn't keep up with P5 football.

And Leach didn't leave the team anything like Paul Wulff did.

 

[wazzucougs96]

Every Rolo slurper here just giving him a pass for completely ignoring recruiting the OL during his entire tenure.

 

[Cougini5591]

Every Rolo slurper here just giving him a pass for completely ignoring recruiting the OL during his entire tenure.

I will admit that I was concerned there as well... But I also want to judge the finished product.

The game of division one transfers is something that coaches are taking advantage of.

I think there is more value in getting a 2 year proven and refined product versus gambling on a high school kid (obviously not 100% of the time)

 

[CougEd]

This isn't true. At least with respect to Catholicism.

From the NCBC:



Note the footnotes refer to the CDF document I linked earlier and the Catechsim of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches the primacy of conscience. CCC 1782:



The Church has clearly stated that while the COVID vaccine is morally permissible, it isn't morally obligated either. And one has a conscientious right to object to receiving the vaccine.

Now, with respect to your claim that no aborted children were used to create the vaccine, it depends on which vaccine and what you mean by "create." Both Moderna and Phizer used the HEK-293 cell line for testing, but do not use fetal stem cells during production. The J&J vaccine uses the PER.C6 line in manufacturing.


I have only been addressing the sincerity of his convictions. While I do think the vaccine mandate was overbroad, it was the state policy, and reasonable accommodations were likely not possible here.

Suudy I guess I have to say it at this point . Rolo very easily could be hiding behind religion (using it) to get his money . Again, if he is so convicted why is he suing ? Why not have the currency of his religious conviction and that is payment enough.

Second with regard to the Catholic Church they make these judgements all the time . Who has conviction and who doesn’t . I stepped in the church for the first time probably in 35 years as a friends father had his service there. When it came time for communion the priest made it very clear even if you are Catholic but haven’t received communion in a certain amount of time you could not receive communion … but they wanted us heathens to walk up there . So I don’t have a lot of problem with people questioning or judging rolos sincerity and conviction, especially in light of his comments to June Jones, his Qanon type questions about the vaccine and his “following on Twitter” a Qanon tweet.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I will admit that I was concerned there as well... But I also want to judge the finished product.

The game of division one transfers is something that coaches are taking advantage of.

I think there is more value in getting a 2 year proven and refined product versus gambling on a high school kid (obviously not 100% of the time)

Where is WSU getting these “2 year proven and refined” products? Cause they got smoked in JC recruiting for years. A couple 4 star big timers? Sure. Over 25 years? Not enough to call it worth while.

The super stars in the portal aren’t choosing WSU. It’s kids looking to move from FCS and G5 football into P5 football. There is an adjustment. I wouldn’t call any of them proven if the standard is proven in P5. Also consider the bench warmers. Lots of guys are big time prospects that ride the bench and wanna play. How do you evaluate them???

WSU will probably have to make a choice like some d2 schools have done. Commit to transfers or high school kids. Both can be too much for some schools to succeed at. Some coaches are better at developing kids. Some are better at putting people in the best scenario and moving forward. Too bad DE isn’t 25 years younger. He’d crush the portal.

It will be interesting to see what shakes out after the last of the covid years are gone.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

If you're calling Rolo stubborn on game strategy when he was fired with us sitting 4 & 3... with Leach bailing and a year of covid "realignment"...

We were actually 4 & 5 at one point in 2013... losing

17-55 against Stanford
24-52 against Oregon State
38-62 against Oregon
21-55 against Arizona State

I think it's ludicrous to come out and condemn Rolovich when he gave us a Bowl Team last year in his 2nd season (more like his first) and coming off the Tutti Fruiti covid shut down.

Double ludicrous to worship Leach while at the start of his dynasty looked similar to where we finished with Coach Wulff.

I'm not saying Rolovich was Leach in the making, but I am awestruck that there seem to be so many thinking he sucked.

I don't have anything against Rolovich and wouldn't have minded if he didn't get fired. That said, the 4-3 record last year for Rolovich is a little less flashy when you dig into it. The wins were against:

FCS Portland State
5-7 Cal
7-6 Oregon State
3-9 Stanford

We got crushed by eventually 4-8 USC, lost by double digits to Utah and gacked away a win against Utah State...who ended up being decent. A really great coach would have had us at 6-1...not 4-3. We probably end up with the same record (7-5) in the regular season if we had kept Rolovich though. The thing that I'll say that I like about Dickert is that he appears to be a more genuine person than Rolovich. The hat, the beers, the other stuff just felt like an act or a gimmick. In the long run, I think we'll be better off with Dickert.

I don't get the hate for Rolovich but at the same time, he made a choice and he's living with the consequences. I have a friend who was fired from the DOT because he refused to "get the jab". It sucks for him, but he made the same choice that Rolovich did. I said before that I felt that Rolovich lost credibility as a leader of the football team when he said that he was too risk averse to get a shot that had been administered to millions of people with very few side effects when compared to the risk of COVID at the time. He made a personal choice and he was entitled to it but he knew what the consequences were and was willing to risk it. My buddy bitches about the Governor, the DOT, the libs and everyone else....but he's not suing anyone.

 

[CougEd]

I don't have anything against Rolovich and wouldn't have minded if he didn't get fired. That said, the 4-3 record last year for Rolovich is a little less flashy when you dig into it. The wins were against:

FCS Portland State
5-7 Cal
7-6 Oregon State
3-9 Stanford

We got crushed by eventually 4-8 USC, lost by double digits to Utah and gacked away a win against Utah State...who ended up being decent. A really great coach would have had us at 6-1...not 4-3. We probably end up with the same record (7-5) in the regular season if we had kept Rolovich though. The thing that I'll say that I like about Dickert is that he appears to be a more genuine person than Rolovich. The hat, the beers, the other stuff just felt like an act or a gimmick. In the long run, I think we'll be better off with Dickert.

I don't get the hate for Rolovich but at the same time, he made a choice and he's living with the consequences. I have a friend who was fired from the DOT because he refused to "get the jab". It sucks for him, but he made the same choice that Rolovich did. I said before that I felt that Rolovich lost credibility as a leader of the football team when he said that he was too risk averse to get a shot that had been administered to millions of people with very few side effects when compared to the risk of COVID at the time. He made a personal choice and he was entitled to it but he knew what the consequences were and was willing to risk it. My buddy bitches about the Governor, the DOT, the libs and everyone else....but he's not suing anyone.

Flat I may not agree with your friend, but I respect him. Same as I respect the officer from Yakima who signed off on his last day and said Inslee could kiss his a$$. Now I cant tell the guy this because he died 45 days later of covid, but he is living and dying with his choice.

 

[Cougsocal]

This isn't true. At least with respect to Catholicism.

From the NCBC:



Note the footnotes refer to the CDF document I linked earlier and the Catechsim of the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches the primacy of conscience. CCC 1782:



The Church has clearly stated that while the COVID vaccine is morally permissible, it isn't morally obligated either. And one has a conscientious right to object to receiving the vaccine.

Now, with respect to your claim that no aborted children were used to create the vaccine, it depends on which vaccine and what you mean by "create." Both Moderna and Phizer used the HEK-293 cell line for testing, but do not use fetal stem cells during production. The J&J vaccine uses the PER.C6 line in manufacturing.


I have only been addressing the sincerity of his convictions. While I do think the vaccine mandate was overbroad, it was the state policy, and reasonable accommodations were likely not possible here.

FYI

CCC 1782 is written in the context of decisions perceived to be between good and evil, right or wrong, moral dilemmas, not personal preferences. Rolo has never claimed or suggested that Covid or other vaccines, or the production thereof, is inherently evil or it is a sin to take them. He told June Jones that he didn't think he needed it and didn't like being told what to do! He also expressed some Bill Gates related health concerns to Dr. Palmer. That isn't a moral dilemma. Going to war, or working with nuclear weapons while confronting the thou shall not kill commandment, that is type of situation CCC 1782 is addressing. Every Catholic who has taken 10 minutes of catechism knows that.

 

[Observer11]

I drink alot and know some bawdy limericks. Can I get in on this hot Catholic talk?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I drink alot and know some bawdy limericks. Can I get in on this hot Catholic talk?

Say 10 Hail Mary's (watch the Godfather to get the lyrics) and chug some communion wine and you are in.

And it is kind of funny that we have to get into trashing religions to get away from politics. Gotta go worship Odin now.

 

[ATACFD]

Too bad DE isn’t 25 years younger. He’d crush the portal.

LOL. I have thought the same thing.

 

[Suudy]

FYI

CCC 1782 is written in the context of decisions perceived to be between good and evil, right or wrong, moral dilemmas, not personal preferences.

You are assuming this is a just a personal preference for Rolo. You have no evidence to suggest he is insincere.

Material cooperation with abortion is more than just a “personal preference.”

Rolo has never claimed or suggested that Covid or other vaccines, or the production thereof, is inherently evil or it is a sin to take them.

How do you know this? Were you present for the conversations he had with Chun or other WSU staff? Do you know what conversations he’s had with his family, friends, priest, etc?

There are reputable organizations, such as NCBC and the Charlotte Lozier Institute, that point to remote cooperation as a legitimate moral concern. Abortion is inherently evil (all orthodox Catholics accept this) and material cooperation can be sinful depending upon the proximity. Conscience is the guide when determining how close is too close.

He told June Jones that he didn't think he needed it and didn't like being told what to do! He also expressed some Bill Gates related health concerns to Dr. Palmer. That isn't a moral dilemma.

According to some reports. Do you really think someone would walk away from millions of dollars just because he “didn’t like being told what to do”? I know it would take more than that for me to do so. Why not Rolo? Are football coaches less greedy?

And given the large number that have claimed a religious exemption, he having a similar one isn’t fringe. There are those (such as myself) who make every effort to avoid abortion derived vaccines. I am more moderate than some, but I respect those who have decided to have zero cooperation.

I know a radiologist who was threatened with termination if he didn’t get the vaccine despite the fact he works from home. Only after threatening to sue did they back down. I also know a nurse who was denied an exemption even though she is in a clerical role and sees no patients and found a new job where they would grant it.

These employers doubted their sincerity and they were willing to fight for the right to keep their job and not violate their conscience. If Rolo was fired for being denied an exemption because they didn’t believe his sincerity, then I understand why he is fighting. However, if he is fighting it because there was no possible accommodation, then I think he is a greedy fool.

Going to war, or working with nuclear weapons while confronting the thou shall not kill commandment, that is type of situation CCC 1782 is addressing. Every Catholic who has taken 10 minutes of catechism knows that.

I assure you I had more than “10 minutes of catechism” and it covers much more than that.

And you are way off with respect to CCC 1782. The reference is to Dignitatis Humanae, which is primarily about religious freedom, not war or murder.

Dignitatis humanae

Declaration on religious freedom - Dignitatis humanae

www.vatican.va

As a counterpoint, consider these examples.

You are a prisoner of war and the guards require you to provide them sexual favors or be beaten severely. Your conscience says this is inappropriate and outside of the proper role of sex. Do you refuse?

Yiur government has banned the Catholic Church and you are required to attend the state church. Your conscience says the Catholic Church is the one true church. Do you refuse?

The government requires all pharmacists to fill hormone prescriptions for gender transitions . You are a pharmacist and conscience tells you this is contrary to natural law. Do you refuse such prescriptions?

You are a business owner and the law says you cannot serve certain races. Your conscience says that all races have equal dignity. Do you continue to serve those races barred under law?

You are a doctor at a correctional facility and the law requires convicted rapists to be medically castrated. Your conscience considers this mutilation and inhumane. Do you refuse to administer the drugs?

These are just a few I thought up. I’m sure there are thousands of more examples that are outside of “Going to war, or working with nuclear weapons while confronting the thou shall not kill commandment.”

 

[95coug]

I think if the state is going to make an argument, it has to be that it denied the exemption because no reasonable accommodation was possible. I don't think the way to go is to challenge Rolo's sincerity in his religious objection.

Agreed. Challenging whether someone’s beliefs are “sincerely held” is a losing proposition. Doesn’t even matter if they never set foot in a church before the pandemic, it’s really easy to claim “enlightenment”. People on death row do it all the time.

The only way to approach the religious portion is to say that an accommodation couldn’t be made based on his job duties….which really shouldn’t be that hard an argument to make.

But…they might not even have to do that. Rolo’s suit alleges that they discriminated against him because of his religion, which shouldn’t be that hard to defend either. Simply explaining why he couldn’t be accommodated, alongside others of the same religion who were, destroys his claim.

But I still think the university settles. For way less than $25M.

 

[etowncoug]

The players liked Coach Wulff, too

But never won 3 straight conference games for him.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I got a different message from God...said get the shot. I wonder if rolo every thought maybe God gave us the resources to create the vaccine. For Rolo to win I think he would have to show he hasn't received other vaccines and that he and his family have a history of not getting vaccines for school and such.

It's great that those who got the "vaccine" didn't have any chance of getting covid as was promisied.

Oh wait....

What was even funnier was the idiots who believed the promise.

Lolololol....

 

[EdmondsCoug]

The vaccines and boosters don't prevent covid, they simply lesson the symptoms if you get covid. They are designed to help you stay out of the hospital, and not die.

 

[justinbgocougs]

The vaccines and boosters don't prevent covid, they simply lesson the symptoms if you get covid. They are designed to help you stay out of the hospital, and not die.

Except that's not what Biden & Fauci said initially.

Luring people into getting a vaccine based on false promises of its effectiveness is what trash humans do. Don't make false promises and then threaten mandates that are backed by false promises.

Also, people trusting and believing big pharma is mind boggling. Watch Dopesick and get back to me. Big Pharma will do anything to make a dollar.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Except that's not what Biden & Fauci said initially.

Luring people into getting a vaccine based on false promises of its effectiveness is what trash humans do. Don't make false promises and then threaten mandates that are backed by false promises.

Also, people trusting and believing big pharma is mind boggling. Watch Dopesick and get back to me. Big Pharma will do anything to make a dollar.

FWIW.....the orange tinted dear leader also told people to get vaccines until it wasn't politically favorable to do so. Nobody anticipated how quickly the COVID virus would mutate and change. The good news is that every mutation was generally weaker than the version that preceded it.

The funny thing about politics is that most Republicans weren't opposed to the development and distribution of vaccines until Democrats were in charge. Hypocrisy runs rampant on both sides of the aisle but Republicans are the undisputed best at it.

 

[Observer11]

Except that's not what Biden & Fauci said initially.

Luring people into getting a vaccine based on false promises of its effectiveness is what trash humans do. Don't make false promises and then threaten mandates that are backed by false promises.

Also, people trusting and believing big pharma is mind boggling. Watch Dopesick and get back to me. Big Pharma will do anything to make a dollar.

True dat. The love of money is indeed the root of all evil.

Is it any wonder the COVID vaccine advertising has not been subject to the same disclosures every other prescription drug is required to divulge? Side effects are clearly identified. Not so with the Covid vaccines.

Informed consent was thrown out the window. Assessment of personal risk was compromised by mandated incentives and coercive methods by local, state and federal governments.

Ultimately, science will provide the truth as more data is analyzed on the long term ramifications of a short term 'fix'. The papertrail will identify those who enriched themselves. For those like Fauci whose net worth skyrocketed during that time, it already has.

 

[Observer11]

FWIW.....the orange tinted dear leader also told people to get vaccines until it wasn't politically favorable to do so. Nobody anticipated how quickly the COVID virus would mutate and change. The good news is that every mutation was generally weaker than the version that preceded it.

The funny thing about politics is that most Republicans weren't opposed to the development and distribution of vaccines until Democrats were in charge. Hypocrisy runs rampant on both sides of the aisle but Republicans are the undisputed best at it.

What difference does it make whether it was Trump or Biden? If Trump had knowledge of corruption, graft or intent to deceive the American people hold him accountable along with anyone else involved.

This isn't a partisan subject. It's a matter of finding the truth - and dollars to donuts, there are participants on both sides of the aisle who profited via big pharma or other contributors to this whole thing

Nobody with critical thinking skills is opposed to vaccines properly developed and adhering to time-tested protections, trials, disclosures and ultimately, liabilities. Big problem for circumventing that process.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

What difference does it make whether it was Trump or Biden? If Trump had knowledge of corruption, graft or intent to deceive the American people hold him accountable along with anyone else involved.

This isn't a partisan subject. It's a matter of finding the truth - and dollars to donuts, there are participants on both sides of the aisle who profited via big pharma or other contributors to this whole thing

Nobody with critical thinking skills is opposed to vaccines properly developed and adhering to time-tested protections, trials, disclosures and ultimately, liabilities. Big problem for circumventing that process.

It is absolutely a partisan subject. Republicans only care right now because they feel that they can use it to motivate their base. If Trump were President, the tables would be flipped and Democrats would be the ones claiming that Trump was getting kickbacks.

What's really interesting is that the entire world is using vaccines and some people here seem to think that there is USA only problem of corruption and that vaccines were only approved here because of dirty backdoor deals.

When you talk about critical thinking.....please explain to the rest of us unwashed why the rest of the world (including some countries that are ideologically opposed to the US) is administering COVID vaccines? Why are Japan, China, Brazil, Columbia, Vietnam, Canada, Finland, Thailand and so many other countries over 80% vaccinated?

The whole vaccine debate is a bunch of crap where people are weaponizing the nation's health for political gain. It's pretty frickin' disgusting.

 

[NMBRCRNCHR]

Flat, open your eyes my friend. The vaccines do not perform as promised and in fact, are doing more harm than good. Bureaucrats are STILL advocating for their use, even in small children, which is straight up insanity considering a child's risk from covid. This isn't about he US and covid vaccines, most of the new data on vaccines injuries and lack of effectiveness is coming from outside the US, read up on it and then "critically think".

And no, I do not care who is requiring or asking me or my family to get poked, red or blue, progressive or conservative, we haven't and we will not...And yes, we put our money where our mouth is.

Have a blessed day.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

True dat. The love of money is indeed the root of all evil.

Is it any wonder the COVID vaccine advertising has not been subject to the same disclosures every other prescription drug is required to divulge? Side effects are clearly identified. Not so with the Covid vaccines.

Informed consent was thrown out the window. Assessment of personal risk was compromised by mandated incentives and coercive methods by local, state and federal governments.

Ultimately, science will provide the truth as more data is analyzed on the long term ramifications of a short term 'fix'. The papertrail will identify those who enriched themselves. For those like Fauci whose net worth skyrocketed during that time, it already has.

Simple: first and foremost, the COVID vaccine isn't a "prescription drug". Second, have you noticed that the shingles vaccine also does not list or state side effects? Do you think the manufacturer of that vaccine is simply engaging in "evil" simply for the love of money? Even the new flu shot commercial only speaks of possible side effects if you had previously had a reaction to the flu shot.

Admittedly, I didn't use the "duck, duck, goose" search engine for this info. I used "ro-sham-beaux". That's all I have to say about that.

 

[justinbgocougs]

It is absolutely a partisan subject. Republicans only care right now because they feel that they can use it to motivate their base. If Trump were President, the tables would be flipped and Democrats would be the ones claiming that Trump was getting kickbacks.

What's really interesting is that the entire world is using vaccines and some people here seem to think that there is USA only problem of corruption and that vaccines were only approved here because of dirty backdoor deals.

When you talk about critical thinking.....please explain to the rest of us unwashed why the rest of the world (including some countries that are ideologically opposed to the US) is administering COVID vaccines? Why are Japan, China, Brazil, Columbia, Vietnam, Canada, Finland, Thailand and so many other countries over 80% vaccinated?

The whole vaccine debate is a bunch of crap where people are weaponizing the nation's health for political gain. It's pretty frickin' disgusting.

Well that's easy, don't let a good pandemic go to waste $$$$$$.

Fear and propaganda work wonders for your bottom line if you're in the pharma biz.

 

[Observer11]

Simple: first and foremost, the COVID vaccine isn't a "prescription drug". Second, have you noticed that the shingles vaccine also does not list or state side effects? Do you think the manufacturer of that vaccine is simply engaging in "evil" simply for the love of money? Even the new flu shot commercial only speaks of possible side effects if you had previously had a reaction to the flu shot.

Admittedly, I didn't use the "duck, duck, goose" search engine for this info. I used "ro-sham-beaux". That's all I have to say about that.

Is it your stipulation that there are no long term effects of the Covid vaccine?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Is it your stipulation that there are no long term effects of the Covid vaccine?

Not the topic I responded to. I see that you accept my counter to your original statement.

Moving on...define "long term effects". I would lean towards too soon to be certain. First, how long we gotta wait for you to feel comfortable? And two, what percentage of the vaccinated population has to be effected (and to what extent and by what) to even be concerned?

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The vaccines and boosters don't prevent covid, they simply lesson the symptoms if you get covid. They are designed to help you stay out of the hospital, and not die.

FWIW.....the orange tinted dear leader also told people to get vaccines until it wasn't politically favorable to do so. Nobody anticipated how quickly the COVID virus would mutate and change. The good news is that every mutation was generally weaker than the version that preceded it.

The funny thing about politics is that most Republicans weren't opposed to the development and distribution of vaccines until Democrats were in charge. Hypocrisy runs rampant on both sides of the aisle but Republicans are the undisputed best at it.

I know you have a bad case of #TDS (Trump is living rent free in yo' head)...but he is still supporting the jabs.

I never changed. It was silly to get an experimental jab at the time with virtually no risk of dying from covid (this according to the government you uphold as an idol). Trump was wrong. He was also wrong about lockdowns. He was wrong to allow corrupt evil Fauci to run his government.

The funnier thing you don't mention is your favorite brilliant VP Harris was completely against the jab when Trump was in office...or are you ignoring that just because?

Anyway, I have been completely consistent as have all conservatives I know.

The jab is not a vaccine. It was sold as a preventative measure (just like flu shots). They (CDC) knew it wouldn't work that well. You just aren't keeping up with the liars.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

It is absolutely a partisan subject. Republicans only care right now because they feel that they can use it to motivate their base. If Trump were President, the tables would be flipped and Democrats would be the ones claiming that Trump was getting kickbacks.

What's really interesting is that the entire world is using vaccines and some people here seem to think that there is USA only problem of corruption and that vaccines were only approved here because of dirty backdoor deals.

When you talk about critical thinking.....please explain to the rest of us unwashed why the rest of the world (including some countries that are ideologically opposed to the US) is administering COVID vaccines? Why are Japan, China, Brazil, Columbia, Vietnam, Canada, Finland, Thailand and so many other countries over 80% vaccinated?

The whole vaccine debate is a bunch of crap where people are weaponizing the nation's health for political gain. It's pretty frickin' disgusting.

What is your personal probability from dying of covid? Did you ever evaluate that? I did...on both a US govt and UK govt website. The probability for me was essentially zero. So why take the jab?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

I know you have a bad case of #TDS (Trump is living rent free in yo' head)...but he is still supporting the jabs.

I never changed. It was silly to get an experimental jab at the time with virtually no risk of dying from covid (this according to the government you uphold as an idol). Trump was wrong. He was also wrong about lockdowns. He was wrong to allow corrupt evil Fauci to run his government.

The funnier thing you don't mention is your favorite brilliant VP Harris was completely against the jab when Trump was in office...or are you ignoring that just because?

Anyway, I have been completely consistent as have all conservatives I know.

The jab is not a vaccine. It was sold as a preventative measure (just like flu shots). They (CDC) knew it wouldn't work that well. You just aren't keeping up with the liars.

Produce your evidence. What she DID say was something to the effect that she wouldn't simply accept it's efficacy because trump says so, knowing full well that he was pushing for it's approval BEFORE the election - raising serious concerns if he was promoting it for the general good, or just his election chances.

As far as it not being a "vaccine", I've never understood why this even matters. Okay fine...let's say it isn't and is only a therapeutic. Did it do what it was designed to do. Taihtsat

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Produce your evidence. What she DID say was something to the effect that she wouldn't simply accept it's efficacy because trump says so, knowing full well that he was pushing for it's approval BEFORE the election - raising serious concerns if he was promoting it for the general good, or just his election chances.

As far as it not being a "vaccine", I've never understood why this even matters. Okay fine...let's say it isn't and is only a therapeutic. Did it do what it was designed to do. Taihtsat

No. It didn't do what it was designed to do (stop people from getting covid...you know, like flu shots (if they pick the likely/correct strain)) stop us from getting influenza during flu season.

Here is a little help for you on what Harris and Biden said in 2020...

Campaign Press Release - FACT: Kamala Harris's Anti-Vaccine Rhetoric is Anti-Science and Dangerous for Public Health | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

You're welcome.

 

[Observer11]

Not the topic I responded to. I see that you accept my counter to your original statement.

Moving on...define "long term effects". I would lean towards too soon to be certain. First, how long we gotta wait for you to feel comfortable? And two, what percentage of the vaccinated population has to be effected (and to what extent and by what) to even be concerned?

No. I don't accept your counter.

Death would be a good place to start in terms of long term effects, followed by myocarditis, stroke and seizures. Infertility and miscarriages is the next segment. Why all of sudden are these spiking? If asking those types of questions isn't the very essence of science, why trust 'the science'? "The Science" should stand up to ongoing inquiry and criticism.

As for me, I'll never be comfortable with something pushed down my throat with such vigor by the government at such a pace. They lost that blind trust a long time ago.

 

[cougarmike]

No. It didn't do what it was designed to do (stop people from getting covid...you know, like flu shots (if they pick the likely/correct strain) stop us from getting influenza during flu season.

Here is a little help for you on what Harris and Biden said in 2020...

Campaign Press Release - FACT: Kamala Harris's Anti-Vaccine Rhetoric is Anti-Science and Dangerous for Public Health | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

View embedded media

You're welcome.

Nick who??

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I know you have a bad case of #TDS (Trump is living rent free in yo' head)...but he is still supporting the jabs.

I never changed. It was silly to get an experimental jab at the time with virtually no risk of dying from covid (this according to the government you uphold as an idol). Trump was wrong. He was also wrong about lockdowns. He was wrong to allow corrupt evil Fauci to run his government.

The funnier thing you don't mention is your favorite brilliant VP Harris was completely against the jab when Trump was in office...or are you ignoring that just because?

Anyway, I have been completely consistent as have all conservatives I know.

The jab is not a vaccine. It was sold as a preventative measure (just like flu shots). They (CDC) knew it wouldn't work that well. You just aren't keeping up with the liars.

My views on the vaccine have nothing to do with Trump. I know a lot of people that died from COVID and the vaccine helped reduce the death rate. You can agree or not and that's ok. For me, I hear too many conservatives lead with "Well the Libs......" on any discussion about COVID and the vaccine. If you don't think it's a partisan issue where people are "supporting their team", I congratulate you on your ability to maintain your naivete.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

My views on the vaccine have nothing to do with Trump.

You usually mention Trump, not me.

I know a lot of people that died from COVID ...

How many is a lot? I know of no one.

It's partisan to the extent that leftists love to tell everyone what to do with their lives and control them.

Again...did you do a personal assessment of your risk of dying. You ignored my question.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

No. It didn't do what it was designed to do (stop people from getting covid...you know, like flu shots (if they pick the likely/correct strain)) stop us from getting influenza during flu season.

Here is a little help for you on what Harris and Biden said in 2020...

Campaign Press Release - FACT: Kamala Harris's Anti-Vaccine Rhetoric is Anti-Science and Dangerous for Public Health | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

View embedded media

You're welcome.

It's like playing chess against a beginner. Here's what Harris said in the very link you posted.

"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it."

She then proceeded to get the shot on December 28.

As for the vaccines doing what they were designed to do, check out this link from the New England Journal of Medine:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389.

96% efficacy ! i.e. " some side effects, some failures". Taihtsat