What do I do with ....
- Thread starter Suudy
- Start date
That and my bobble head still in the box. I should have sold it right after the Alamo Bowl last year. Just like I should have dumped all my stocks 3 weeks ago.
Might not be too late. For equities at least. Hoping for a bounce after this open. Then go to cash.
... this?
I got one for Christmas last year. Maybe I'll spraypaint the MSU logo on it and sell it on eBay.
I've got three Mike Leach bobbleheads from when I took my kids to the game a few years back. I had a fourth but one of my co-workers "accidentally" bumped it off my desk and onto the floor a couple years back.
I don’t think the bounce will be big enough to get most things I hold back in the black. But, playing the long game, I’m looking to take advantage when this blows over and it starts to rebound.
Until then, looks like it’s trade school for all of the kids.
Bingo. If you missed it which most people do because timing is damn near impossible stay in or you’ll be on the sideline during the biggest gains. Take Indians jones advice and don’t look at it.
I think it's ok to look at your retirement savings as long as you don't stress about it. If it causes you stress, don't look. For me, I get kind of a fatalistic satisfaction out of looking at it. I'm not a fan of our cheeto-in-chief and I found it amusing (in a dark way) that between Feb. 1, 2018 and Aug. 1, 2019, my account actually lost money under his dynamic and "perfect" leadership. It did show some pretty nice gains from Aug 1, 2019 until it took a dump on itself a couple weeks ago, where it reverted back to that Feb. 1 amount again.
My takeaway is that the Republican fantasy of "supercharging" the market the way that they did in 2017 is nothing more than a way for the people at the top end of the financial markets and companies to make some bank. All the little things that they do to juice the market makes for short term gains but sets us up for the inevitable correction or an uneven mess like we saw for roughly 18 months from early 2018 to mid 2019. Every bubble pops. Every rally runs out of steam. Folks like me who do our part and tuck away 10-15% need to just ride the waves and look at the long term picture without stressing about what happens in any 1-2 year period. It's ok to look, just don't stress about it.
True, just saying emotion is bad with investing. Seeing things can cause emotion. Emotion can cause bad impulses (selling after a huge drop). Over the course of history if you fall asleep and wake up 2 years later your investments will be +. If you panic you’ll miss the best gains almost always.
take care of your stress level and think long term...
Yep. 6 weeks ago the bulk of my holdings were up 10-15%. Really wish I had sold those and taken the gains, because they're all down 20% now. Not only would I have had the profit, but then I'd have more available cash to buy back in later. Kind of screwed myself twice.
Trying to time the market is folly. Best thing you can do is keep some cash on the sidelines and buy low when the opportunity presents itself.
The moment you start playing "woulda, coulda, shoulda" is the moment that you should realize that you shouldn't be paying attention.......unless it's your job to pay attention. Despite my comment above, I have roughly 10 times as much money in my retirement account as I did at the bottom of the market in 2009. Even comparing it to the last three years under our cheeto-in-chief, I'm up 33%.....although a big chunk of that is cash that I've injected into the account.
The scary thing for me right now is that I've reached the age where market gains (and losses) are more important than the money that I'm putting in right now. That said, I personally don't stress about it because trying to outguess the market is how you miss on big rallies and take it in the shorts on the selloffs. Professionals can play at it, but unless it's your job, you are begging for trouble when you try to outguess the market.
On a similar note, I was talking with a co-worker and it's his opinion that we should outlaw day trading and micro-transactions. The stock market was not created so companies could buy and sell stocks in milliseconds trying to squeeze money out of the system without real regard to what you are buying. I'd double down and ban options trading except for agricultural commodities. I've dabbled in options and it's nothing more than gambling. It's kind of fun but my owning Caterpillar options for two weeks in 2016 did nothing for anyone but me and the poor bastards drawing cards from the deck. Unfortunately, because the financial industry is now geared around the sales of stocks and has nothing to do with "ownership" in the way that the stock market was originally intended, volatility and uncertainty is desirable because it's a way for people to make money, even if it's all just a charade. Of course, my entire financial future resides in the belief that the charade will continue until I die......so we're all kind of stuck with it. The financial industry loves the people who look back at 6 weeks ago and thinks they should have done something different.
I do an annual timing using Schiller PE10, at the time I rebalance. I did miss some upside, but now I’m waiting for the PE10 to hit 22, and possibly do some buying. My 60% (now more like 67%)in bonds and cds has done pretty well this year.
1. Set up and use for target practice with your largest caliber rifle.
2. Film and post to the youtubes.
3. ?????
4. Profit.
2. Film and post to the youtubes.
3. ?????
4. Profit.
... this?
I got one for Christmas last year. Maybe I'll spraypaint the MSU logo on it and sell it on eBay.
Sell them to a certain fella so you can get your $20 back
Lots of good stuff here. I agree with a lot of sentiments, but not the particulars.
High frequency trades are part of the world we live in now. The impact of this is it accelerates things in the short term. I honestly think it makes it easier to make money because computer trading pushes prices too low on the downside. Long term buy and hold with minor adjustments is still prudent. More noise doesn't change this.
Americans have gotten complacent during the longest bull run in market history. They don't know what they are invested in and own too many index funds. On a day like today was your money positioning itself for a recovery, or is the one way for you to get back to even for the index to regain everything?
Options markets aren't fair. You are gambling against people who know more than you.
I'd love to be able to make high frequency microtrades and just string together a half dozen $50-100 profits every day. But I don't have time for that, and if I tried I'd end up breaking even and wasting time. My play right now is to keep the bulk of my money in things that are steady and reliable gainers (except in the last 2 weeks) and leave them alone. With 25-30%, I search for things that seem poised for growth and/or undervalued, and that are in the bottom half of their 52-week range (much harder to find the last few years, and I'm probably 60/40 on right/wrong). Of course, every one of those is down right now, and most are at or near their 52-week lows (or their 5-year lows). The opportunity this creates is that in a few months when things start to recover, I can look at the ones I think are going to bounce, and buy more.
Fortunately, I'm not relying on this account for my retirement, so it doesn't hurt that much if I screw it up. I have not looked at the kids' college fund, and it's probably best that I don't. It wasn't doing great before coronavirus, and I was looking at moving it all to new management. I'm quite sure that if I look now, it'll just be depressing.
That’s probably a good play with or without the stock market dive. Their are we too many people with worthless degrees and not near enough plumbers, electricians, mechanics etc.
And one of mine usually has at least part of her butt crack visible, so she's already half qualified for plumbing or refrigeration.
I have to agree with NW on this one. One can make a better living as a plumber, mechanic, electrician etc. than one can with most non-STEM degrees. Bernie Sanders' proposal of free college for all would be a disaster for more than a few reasons. (Don't get me started.) I have long felt that the government should put some money/subsidies into community colleges and trade schools. Our society's fascination with a degree seems to make this proposal politically unpopular. If kids really want to go to college and have a well thought out plan then there are government loans to make this possible. If the degree to be obtained is worth the expense then go for it. If not, there is nothing wrong with dirt under the fingernails.
Supporting Kayak's statement....
My journeymen AC service techs/pipe fitters and my sheet metal journeymen are both at a base rate of about $47/hr. Most are over scale, so let's just round it to $50. Figure 2,000 working hours per year, but most don't work that many regular hours; 1,850 would be more typical. Gotta go to the occasional kid's soccer game or play. Add in anywhere from 300-600 hours overtime at time and a half, depending upon how much the guy wants to work. Every single one of my journeymen and foremen are well into six figures. Every one. It takes 5 years of night school, 3 hours per class, two nights a week, 9 months/year to get through the apprenticeship...while working full time. The entrance exam for both apprenticeships requires that you can pass a high school geometry class. Miss 3 classes in any subject during the semester and you flunk, barring major excuses (most who get 4 misses flunk; it is that simple). If you flunk you have to petition to repeat the semester. I have one guy who failed his petition and is waiting hopefully for next year's petition. On top of the good pay are the skills learned and friends acquired. Most of these guys buy fixer uppers and either do the fixing themselves or trade out to their friends in other trades. At 7-10 years they easily make twice what a lot of 4 year degrees pay. In California the state legislature (I'll skip the lawyer jokes, but our legislators don't know much that is practical and can only barely write legible laws...the statement that they "craft laws" refers more to their staff than themselves) has finally figured out that a significant number of our children are not going to a 4 year school, and their policies of the last 30 years have been systematically abandoning those kids. We are actually seeing a slow return of funding to vo-tech and other skills-related classes in high school and JC. We speak often here of "devalued degrees". A devalued degree is one that does not equip one for a job after a 4-5 year school effort, and instead requires more and more graduate level classes just to be qualified in the field to which they aspire. I have two sisters; a teacher and a social worker; who were both forced to get masters degrees in order to function in their craft. They are good examples of the consequences of devalued degrees. Bernie is not the only one who doesn't get it.
I think teaching has been disincentivized across the country. Between the miserable pay, lack of curriculum and disciplinary control, the virtual (or actual) mandate that you get a masters while working, and increasing reliance on test scores...why bother.
Actually...any degree that forces you to wait tables in the evenings after you’re done with your day job (which 2/3 of the people I knew in education did) why bother?
Starting out, fresh out of school with only a BA/BS, teaching would be rough. After you start climbing the experience and credit hour steps, it ain't bad at all. Benefits are quite good. And it's a 180 or so day a year job.
The more I see Boeing plummet, the more I’m salivating over a return to normalcy. It’s lost over $100/share, and barring a complete meltdown of the company, it has to gain back at lest $50 of that.
Crazy, Kayak are right.
I am a NAC(Nursing Assistant Certified)
I found out that I can work part time as NAC, and take either a part time to full time LPN(Licensed Practice Nurse(RN(Registered Nurse), next step up), program.
The Program last 12 to 15 to 18 months. It takes 3 months to 1 year to get the Prerequisite's, supporting classes done.
So total time is 18 months to 2.5 years to then take the NCLEX National License Exam.
Cost is about $75 to $150 for the TEAS Assessment/Admission into program test.
$4k to $16k to complete program.
$85 to $200 to take the NCLEX.
LPN's make about 43k to 53k a year, and are in high demand.
I only had to pay $750 and take a 3 month class, do a 2.5 week Clinical Internship, pay $175 to take the NAC exam, to get paid $13,$14,$15 a hour, and NAC's are in high demand.
The trades are where its at. Whether Medical, Sheet Metal, etc.
The trades usually only cost a small investment of time and money, and have a HUGE return.
6 to 8 to 10 to 12 years of College/Degrees, going into 350k into debt, and then either working at McDonalds, because everybody else wants to be a social worker, or only getting paid 30k a year to be a Teacher, is not as good as the trades route.
Now that is not to knock teachers, or say that someone should not be a teacher.
If someone wants to be grossly underpaid to be a teacher, like my Father was, then more power to them, I am glad that they are teaching, because we need GOOD teachers.
In 6 months to 24 months I plan to enroll at SCC to get LPN, 2 years after that. Hopefully I cam get a scholarship or financial aid, but even if have to pay out of pocket, its worth the time, investment to get a return back of about 40k to 50k a year Entry Level, to start.
No way would I goto college for 6 to 8 to 10 to 12 years of college, go about 125k in debt, to be a LPN, if that was what was required, and if I would only get paid 30k a year, or if I had to work at Mc Donald's, because the degree was not as good.
Trades way is best in my opinion.
I am a NAC(Nursing Assistant Certified)
I found out that I can work part time as NAC, and take either a part time to full time LPN(Licensed Practice Nurse(RN(Registered Nurse), next step up), program.
The Program last 12 to 15 to 18 months. It takes 3 months to 1 year to get the Prerequisite's, supporting classes done.
So total time is 18 months to 2.5 years to then take the NCLEX National License Exam.
Cost is about $75 to $150 for the TEAS Assessment/Admission into program test.
$4k to $16k to complete program.
$85 to $200 to take the NCLEX.
LPN's make about 43k to 53k a year, and are in high demand.
I only had to pay $750 and take a 3 month class, do a 2.5 week Clinical Internship, pay $175 to take the NAC exam, to get paid $13,$14,$15 a hour, and NAC's are in high demand.
The trades are where its at. Whether Medical, Sheet Metal, etc.
The trades usually only cost a small investment of time and money, and have a HUGE return.
6 to 8 to 10 to 12 years of College/Degrees, going into 350k into debt, and then either working at McDonalds, because everybody else wants to be a social worker, or only getting paid 30k a year to be a Teacher, is not as good as the trades route.
Now that is not to knock teachers, or say that someone should not be a teacher.
If someone wants to be grossly underpaid to be a teacher, like my Father was, then more power to them, I am glad that they are teaching, because we need GOOD teachers.
In 6 months to 24 months I plan to enroll at SCC to get LPN, 2 years after that. Hopefully I cam get a scholarship or financial aid, but even if have to pay out of pocket, its worth the time, investment to get a return back of about 40k to 50k a year Entry Level, to start.
No way would I goto college for 6 to 8 to 10 to 12 years of college, go about 125k in debt, to be a LPN, if that was what was required, and if I would only get paid 30k a year, or if I had to work at Mc Donald's, because the degree was not as good.
Trades way is best in my opinion.
... this?
I got one for Christmas last year. Maybe I'll spraypaint the MSU logo on it and sell it on eBay.
traitor!!!!
They should outlaw shorts. That is not investing . When someone buys they are investing in the stock . When you short it (and screws up the true market) they are betting the stock fails . That is not investing in the truest sense and why stocks were originally issued .
Correct, shorts help with much needed market liquidity and lessen the chances of bubbles forming.
It's much harder to make money on the short side of a trade. Potential for losses are unlimited and your max upside is 100%. Similar to options, most investors have no business shorting. But just because it's not right for most doesn't mean it's not right for some.
Do they though? Again, the stock market has quit being about ownership in companies and financial fundamentals and more about gambling and gaming the system. I always laugh when a company reports their earnings and they report $4.95 per share instead of $4.98......and the stock falls 10% because "they didn't meet expectations". The stock market is a necessary evil for us at this point as a vehicle for retirement savings, but the whole damned thing is a charade with "liquidity" necessary for brokers and financial companies to extract money from the system. They'll tell you that liquidity is necessary for the system to work and prevent bubbles, but the reality is that investors that are deeply involved with the stock market and are using it as their income only want liquidity because without it, they can't buy a Maserati because they won't have as many trades to skim profit from. Liquidity that turns into excessive volatility isn't a good thing for people being told that they need to invest in the stock market to have money to retire.
Short selling might have a hypothetical purpose, but is not a good thing when you have billionaires and financial companies willing to manipulate the market for financial gain. They will never have total control, but they'll do everything that they can to get their piece of the pie. I still remember with fondness putting hundreds of dollars per month into my kids college savings account in 2008 and 2009, watching the broker scrape his percentage off the top and watching the stock market fall and see that $500 dwindle to $450 (or less). The market came back.....but it's important for everyone outside the financial sector to remember that most of the people that work in the financial sector don't care about you and your money, they only care about how much of it that they can get from you.
This isn't an attack on you......it's just the reality of the system. I read on article that talks up the importance of short selling and when it came down to it, it was just a bunch of propaganda that said that regular investors were too stupid to properly value stocks and that short sellers were the only check to prevent bubbles. It's a nice fantasy, but we see bubbles all the time because the truth is.....short sellers want companies to get overvalued so that they can take advantage of the fall.
I wanted to follow up with the fact that even though it frustrates me that financial advisers don't really care about me or how my investments perform, I understand that they can't afford to care about me and my investments. Ten years ago, I wanted to start investing in stocks and had saved $5,000 with the plan to invest $1,000 per month. This was money outside my 401(k) that I wanted to have access to if I needed it but I wanted to try my hand at stocks. I went to the financial adviser that my company used for our 401(k)'s and talked to him about it. His recommendation was to buy this mutual fund that he could set me up with. He would charge me just under 2% for handling the monthly transaction and it would be a nice, diversified fund. Probably sound financial advice.....but if all I wanted to do was that, I didn't need to pay an adviser 2% to get it done. I was pretty mad.
Of course, when thinking about it later, I charge my clients almost $200 per hour for my services as an engineer. If I'm only getting $20 per month from a client, I can only afford to grant him about 6 minutes per month and that doesn't buy much advice. So, even though it's frustrating to realize that the financial markets don't care about "normal" people, it's important to realize that it's because we aren't really able to pay the amount needed to justify the allocation of their time.
Of course, when thinking about it later, I charge my clients almost $200 per hour for my services as an engineer. If I'm only getting $20 per month from a client, I can only afford to grant him about 6 minutes per month and that doesn't buy much advice. So, even though it's frustrating to realize that the financial markets don't care about "normal" people, it's important to realize that it's because we aren't really able to pay the amount needed to justify the allocation of their time.
Fair point. In this case, though, he was doing you a tremendous disservice by not letting you know you could just buy the fund for free and ending the call right there. Different if you wanted tax advice, ongoing rebalancing, dealing with trusts, etc., where a financial adviser actually can provide value. It's like me (as a lawyer) dealing with a client that wants something that easily is handled via a free online form in which all you have to do is put in your name and basic address information, nothing complex or obscure, each month. Can or should this person pay me my rate--which is mind-boggling for individuals--to deal with it? Of course not, but the way to think of it (in my view) isn't that this person can only afford to pay for a few minutes of my time ... I instead should just tell the person they can file the form for free and that's the end of it.
The bears don't have to"bet" on a stock going down and short it, they can just dump the stock.
Easy answer...cause it is "trading" and not investing. Stock is sold to INVEST in a company. With shorts and puts, it skews the market, the consumer is no longer investing in the company.
Why keep them out of the market? Well Lehman, Goldman Bear Stearns and others put together mortgage default swaps. They bundled these sh!tty loans, got a better rating on them and knew they would default. They get paid on the front end for putting the funds together and being kind enough to sell them to the Norwegian teachers retirement fund claiming a high yield. Then they knew the assets in that fund would default, they shorted them. So who holds the bag? The consumer. Then the federal government had to bail them out.
It would like allowing me to be in a court room as an observer and bookie, taking bets on the verdict. Then eventually either the defense attn or prosecuting attn wants in on the bigger pay day, and justice goes out the window or perceived justice and it becomes a betting sporting event. You are right, I am shortsighted.
Short sellers have people pay less for stocks in times of market enthusiasm and provide much needed buyers in times of panic.
Don't panic, like what you own, and short sellers won't effect you.
