Wulff fired at USF

[BiggsCoug]

Re: Did you feel equally "unvidicated" when

Price could've been fired after losing to Idaho. That was awful.

People like to be right Ed. I know for a guy like you that's always wrong that can be tough to read. Please try.

Levy is an exceptional coach. He probably should've been pushed up the ladder to OC and then head coach cause he is a liability as a recruiter. Which most programs just can't have.

Morton did nothing to impress me. Now, whether that's because he had lousy talent or a lack of kids to start with, who knows. Either way, his OL's sucked.

If Tormey was so good why is he coaching high school football?

Ball, who knows. I wasn't impressed with his attitude about Pullman being tough to recruit to. Sounded like loser salesman talk to me.

Not many of the idiot staff have gone on to see much success. Including the top idiot.

Brand name Ed. It matters. If you're a top 10 QB on the west coast and you have two PAC 12 head coaches sitting in the office waiting to talk to you.... but you have to pick only 1. Do you take Jim Mora or Paul Wulff? Jeff Tedford or Paul Wulff? David Shaw/Jim Harbaugh or Paul Wulff? Sarkisian/Kiffin or Paul Wulff? Whittingham or Paul Wulff? Rich Rod or Paul Wulff? Dennis Erickson or Paul Wulff? Mike Leach or Paul Wulff? Brand name matters. Brand name gets you in the door. You watch, if OSU hires Beau Baldwin from EWU their recruiting will plummet. Why? Cause no kid in SoCal knows who he is or cares if he won a FCS title. They know nothing about him and it isn't on the kid to educate themselves about a FCS coach getting BCS on the job training.

The Idiot left two NFL QB's that weren't gonna sniff the NFL unless Leach showed up. Again, brand name. Do you think Leach's name helps his QBs get a shot in the NFL? I do. Can't say the same about the future insurance salesman.

Sterk and Rawlins, simply amazed they have jobs. Makes me think I should've gone into university admin. I know I can do a better job then those dummies.

 

[CougEd]

What you need to assume is that his posts are

out of passion for his school, a school that is losing. The reason your assertion is ridiculous is that you said he "climbed the hill" to make a proclamation, and the fact is he posted it once in 2012. Sponge made the one post in 2012. He could have said it at the end of the year as well. He could have said it last year after puking up the bowl game. At that point the Cougs at 9-16 and an ugly 2013 Apple Cup. He could have made "proclamation after losing to Rutgers, Nevada and scoring 59 and losing to Cal. They are and were way under .500 at that point as well. The fact you see seven losses as a magical point is farfetched. To be honest, if it was done out of validation I think losing a game when you are scoring 59 would have been a perfect entry point. So what you are saying if Sponge posted after the sixth loss it isn't a coincidence. Makes sense to me.

Not saying such outlandish posts should be ignored. Nor after year three would I assume he somehow doesnt feel dismayed and alarmed the program is where it is. I am sure purse passion says he is not confident where Leach is taking us. I would also say he felt the same way about Wulff, so why did that enter your post.

 

[wulffui]

Re: What you need to assume is that his posts are

Originally posted by CougEd:
out of passion for his school, a school that is losing. The reason your assertion is ridiculous is that you said he "climbed the hill" to make a proclamation, and the fact is he posted it once in 2012. Sponge made the one post in 2012. He could have said it at the end of the year as well. He could have said it last year after puking up the bowl game. At that point the Cougs at 9-16 and an ugly 2013 Apple Cup. He could have made "proclamation after losing to Rutgers, Nevada and scoring 59 and losing to Cal. They are and were way under .500 at that point as well. The fact you see seven losses as a magical point is farfetched. To be honest, if it was done out of validation I think losing a game when you are scoring 59 would have been a perfect entry point. So what you are saying if Sponge posted after the sixth loss it isn't a coincidence. Makes sense to me.

Not saying such outlandish posts should be ignored. Nor after year three would I assume he somehow doesnt feel dismayed and alarmed the program is where it is. I am sure purse passion says he is not confident where Leach is taking us. I would also say he felt the same way about Wulff, so why did that enter your post.

I love how the only thing you remember about year two is it's last two minutes. Really shows your passion to discuss your school when it's losing. Also, I swear I remember complaint posts before the end of the first quarter against BYU, but hey, when you've got a nine minute sample you can base your opinion on, why not?

He stated very early on that this coach would fail, and has only shown up for discussion when he thought signs of that were apparent... But since the word "proclamation" is too strong for you- how would you describe someone making assertions that a coach will fail, that they're only willing to stand behind as he's failing... while ignoring the success he does have?

Seems like a proclamation to me.

 

[CougEd]

Good grief Charlie Brown...

Great. people like to be right. Like with your girlfriend, you can say and be wrong and have the best make up sex you ever had, or you can spend the night by yourself. No lonely nights for CougEd, but that is just my approach.

What is not to like about Morton's coaching. Didn't he coach Olin Kruetz and several other Huskies who made it to the show? What about what he produced at WSU and ISU? USC? "Morton has coached five Pac-10 Morris Trophy winners, signifying the conference's best lineman. Additionally he has mentored four first-team All-America players, and NFL first-round draft choices Kwame Harris of Stanford and Lincoln Kennedy of Washington." Yeah, he can't coach.

Chris Tormey's resume I think speaks fro itself. Didn't he coach guys like Jason Chorak? Didn't he win at Idaho? Didn't he put quite a few players in the NFL.

So what you are telling me is Jody Sears equals Mike Breske, Volero equals Roberson, and Russell equals Niekamp. Not sure I disagree...wrong coaches at the wrong time.

Brand name...Price vs Donahue, Price vs Bellotti, Price vs Snyder, Price vs carroll, Price vs Tedford, Price vs Dirk Koetter. Walden vs Robinson, Walden vs Donahue, Walden vs James. Brand name is great, but as the past has shown us you better pick the right players. Like you said, Scoobey Wright vs anyone of Cal's lb's. Which head to head at this point do you think Leach is going to win? Dykes? Maybe. New OSU coach, probably. Peterson or Leach? Oregon coach or Leach? Shaw or Leach? Sarkisian or Leach? You see, it is a dumb argument.

And regarding Tuel, are you really going to make the argument that was because Leach coached him? I would suggest Leach actually hurts the players stock in the NFL, and not because they aren't coached well, but they are pegged to being "system QB's". And by the way, tell me how many yards Halliday had coming in for Marshal in 2011 against ASU? And tell me the end story of that game?

 

[CougEd]

Again Wulffui,

You are correct, his comment were made in the BYU (correct it was the BYU game, not the CU game as I mentioned above) game. I would think a better indicator is what he said for the rest of the season, not an emotional outburst. Yes, if he kept on railing against Leach for the remainder of the season I wouldn't have this discussion with you. I never once said that what he said it was a rational thought during the BYU game. It was a post out of emotion and frustration. And since he did not say the same thing until this year it had zero do with proclamations and about being right and vindicated. So he stated it once, and you clearly held on to that.

Again, he could have shown up for the Rutgers game, which was a dismal failure on every level. He could have posted proclamations after the Nevada game, the Cal game.

And he seemed to hit his wits end after losing to the UW.

I guess for him and others it goes to expectations. It was written many times those who supported Wulff needed to raise their expectations for the program. We are were we are because of the low expectations of that segment of the fan base. As Sponge will point out, they didn't pay Leach to be 3-9 in season 3, and 12-26 overall. That wasn't forecast at all. But his posts come from passion, not proclamation or a need to be right. He wants WSU to win. If you were to ask him whohe thinks could do a better job, my guess he would be stumped. He,I, you would have a difficult time coming up with a different name that could end this cycle.

Yes, if he was posting in 2013 I would probably think he would say for the most part 2013 was successful. And I bet he would tell you how frustrated he was after the Bowl game. A perfect time to vent and proclaim, don't you think?

 

[wulffui]

Re: Again Wulffui,

But what was there to be passionate nine minutes into a coaches tenure- IN ANY COACHES TENURE, unless your passion was determined before he ever took the field?

 

[CougEd]

Wulffui

All I can tell you is to hold onto that BYU game. Hold that as your lasting thought. Make that as your case that Sponge, who did not like Wulff, wanted and needed leach to fail so in year three he could come back and exact revenge for those who supported Wulff. Oh, that is right, he wanted Wulff booted.

It was a stupid post, he subsequently said so as Yaki brought it up time after time. Personally I wish he didn't post during this years Apple Cup.

The passion is wanting to win. The passion is thinking with Leach and his rep he would have done against BYU that he did to Cal. It was about build up. It was about false expectation.

 

[spongebob11]

Re: Again Wulffui,

Good god...the reason I quit posting here is because I chose not to argue with idiots on topics such as these.

I posted that in the 2nd half of the BYU game in the 3rd quarter after it was clear to me how easy this offense is going to be to defend.

And I was as excited as anyone was when we hired Leach.

But I don't think he will get it done if he keeps throwing the ball 60 plus times per game...nevermind the disaster on the other side of the ball and special teams.

 

[wulffui]

Re: Wulffui

No, there were plenty of others- after last year's ASU game, when the Leach experiment was doomed- until he won the next two and was bowl eligible. Believe me, there's far more than one example; I just chose the most demonstrative one.

In any event, you're as entitled to your opinion as much as I'm entitled to point out where you're contradicting yourself. It is good to be open and point out mistakes, though- that's how you get credibility when you dig your heels in.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Re: Again Wulffui,

Originally posted by spongebob11:
Good god...the reason I quit posting here is because I chose not to argue with idiots on topics such as these.

I posted that in the 2nd half of the BYU game in the 3rd quarter after it was clear to me how easy this offense is going to be to defend.

And I was as excited as anyone was when we hired Leach.

But I don't think he will get it done if he keeps throwing the ball 60 plus times per game...nevermind the disaster on the other side of the ball and special teams.

The OL has to get better. They spent the first two years not being able to pass protect. The defense could drop 8 or even 9 and get pressure. Now they can block 2 or 3 guys but they can't push anyone out of the way.

Once these OL start to grow up in the offense I think you'll see the QB calling more runs because there's more confidence in the blocking.

I don't think you need to be balanced offensively to win. I think you need to be able to take what the defense is giving you. If teams drop 8 WSU needs to be able to rip off 4 yards on the ground consistently. If the defense drops 6 WSU needs to be able to burn the in the passing game.

It'll probably take 3 more years to see this happen.

 

[spongebob11]

Re: Again Wulffui,

Totally agree.

I don't think we need to be 50/50...I do think we've had some nice runs from scrimmage with what we already have. Just in the apple cup, we had a 8 yd run on 1st down, then 3 consecutive passes to turnover the ball on downs in the 1st quarter.

My main thing is keeping the defense honest...and cutting down on pass plays a bit to limit turnovers and sacks

 

[YakiCoug]

Re: Again Wulffui,

This thread simply proves that Wulff was the worst thing ever for WSU Cougar football. And now we're dealing with the reality that the loss of 50 bodies from the 2010, 2011, and 2012 recruiting classes NOT due to graduation is an extremely major obstacle. How Leach managed a bowl game in his second year is a wonder.

 

[Coug95man2]

Re: Again Wulffui,

Timeline, as I've stated, I'm coming to your side but I hope it's a little quicker than that. I hope next year, we'll be able to hold 3/4 rushers!!!! But anyways, this is EXACTLY the reason CML (or more accurately the QB) hasn't been calling any rushes. We've been calling more this year but that's a reflection of the OL. The RB's have also been doing pretty spectacular considering the situations they've been placed in. This portion of the program will only improve, IMHO. And I don't even know that we need to call more, we just need to OL to be able to push them around and give space. That will translate into more yards. THEN the D will be "honest".

 

[YakiCoug]

Re: I went silent after year one as well...So what conclusions

Ed had nothing to say because Leach had his team qualifying for a bowl game - an achievement he and others suggested should have happened in 2012. Many fans took a beating for their predictions about Wulff. To them, it's pay-back time. Ray Charles and Helen Keller can both see it.

 

[spongebob11]

Re: Again Wulffui,

The D is gonna continue to drop 8 if we don't take advantage of it and run the ball more.Simply "pushing" the d lineman around won't keep the defense honest if we don't run the ball.

I also think its BS as to that is why he hasn't called any rushed. We have enough to run the ball more and keep defenses honest.

Leach doesn't like to run the ball. And no, those lateral passes do not equal runs.

 

[CougEd]

Re: Wulffui---

Yes, there were plenty of opportunity for Sponge to come back after the BYU game. The point is he didn't post last year, and as you so nicely pointed out he could have before beating Arizona and Utah. He didn't.

There is no contradiction, the point is and always will be that there is no vindication on being right at the expense of the Cougar football program.

Wulff didn't work out. Sweeney didn't work out. Bone didn't work out. Pete Carroll didn't work out in New York or Boston. Sometimes it is bad coaching, sometimes it is bad talent that is left, sometimes it is simply bad luck. Mike Breske didn't work out. If I told you year one he was never going to make it, should I feel "vindicated"? Hell, the man just lost his job. His family has to move. You think Leach felt good about firing a very good friend, a guy he has known forever, and a guy he hired as is DC? There is no vindication, nor would I ever think that would be a motive. Call me naïve.

 

[CougEd]

Probably great coaching...and they forgot

what they did in year two.

Actually what cost them more than Wulff's recruits in 2012 was not getting Dockery and Jackson to play corner. If they are soph or juniors with experience 2014 looks a lot different. Just not a lot of room for error.

 

[wulffui]

Since the firing...

Would you say o/u 5 times you've used the words "Breske" and "Montana" in the same post since his firing? I know it's tight.

As to running more, the tools are coming into place- between the returning line, two developing backs who can/will do things this backfield hasn't seen in a while, and a QB both more willing to check to the run and more capable of taking off himself (and where they're coming from) the run game is a growth proposition, and won't be this low again at any point in the future.

 

[Coug95man2]

Re: Again Wulffui,

IMO, when our Oline is able to open up an alley that the Fridge can lope through, THAT will catch every D's attention. The number of times we run we be determined by them. They stack the box, we're throwing. They drop 8, we're running. So I don't know that I give a rip about attempts as much as Yards Per Rush. THAT is what catches D's attention.

But we've got to be able to have some success at the run before they take our running game seriously. And continually running, and not getting meaningful yards, does nothing but make the game hurt more.

 

[CougEd]

What does Montana have to do with it? Is this meant for me

Under 5. I would even make over and under two....and I believe it is under that.

 

[Coug1990]

Originally posted by BiggsCoug:

Originally posted by longtimecoug:

Originally posted by BiggsCoug:

Originally posted by CougPatrol:

Originally posted by BiggsCoug:

Lots of fans that were squarely in his camp were made to look like fools once the bottom fell out of his program... that they had spent years shouting down the fans that saw right thru his house of cards.

Let's all hope that we're not watching history repeat itself.

I agree. I think Leach is the guy. I just think WSU fans are delusional calling something that's never been built a rebuild.

I think it will take upwards of a decade to build WSU.

I agree, to get WSU to the point of having winning seasons every year, or virtually every year will take 8-10 years, with the same coach. if we cut bait every 4 years the ups and downs will never stop

You either hire the right guy and stick with him until it gets done OR you have consistent success hiring the right guy consecutively. Very few programs have been able to do that.

The only reason you cut bait and start over is if the guy just digs a hole so deep that he can't get out of it.

That is so true. I think back a few years ago when a Cougar fired a husky because the husky was in over his head. This Cougar did this after only one year. You can tell when someone is not very good where he is at. Paul Allen fired Jim Mora after only one season as Seahawk head coach. It was the right decision. It was abundantly clear that Wulff was in over his head from his first game at WSU.

Further, Pete Carroll made the playoffs and won a playoff game his first season in Seattle and the team took a step back (although they finished with the same record) the next season. But, the foundation was being set. Leach is a good coach. he proved it as an assistant at numerous places. He proved it as a head coach. He knows what he is doing.

 

[CougEd]

1990..then again you told us how great Breske was

and showed stat after stat.

Mora was fired cause Allen wanted splash. Mora can coach and has proven so both at college and pros.

 

[spongebob11]

Re: Wulffui

If you can remember what I posted after last yrs ASU game, you need to get a life man.

And I'm sorry if I don't share your enthusiasm about going 6-7 and to the Juice box and Orange slice bowl.

I think its a joke any team should get to go to a bowl by having a .500 record and a losing record in the conference.

 

[wulffui]

Re: Wulffui

This may come as a shock to you, but assuming that you said something bad after a particularly poor performance isn't some masterful feat of memory.

As for the orange slice bowl, they're not new, and we STILL hadn't been to any of them in ten years, so it's a start. The disappointment of this year doesn't dampen that entirely, as long as they have functional special teams going forward- the loss of a kicker exacerbated Leachs more aggressive tendencies and cost you multiple games.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Re: Wulffui

I agree. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect teams to have a winning record overall and at least 500 in conference play.

Going 2-6 in league, 4-0 in a p*ssy non conference schedule, then going to a bowl is crap.

10 league games, 2 non league games against 1A schools, let the chips fall where they may. Or play 11 league games. It's not like WSU has some great non league rivalry with a school that isn't in the PAC 12. Might as well just play everyone.

 

[Coug1990]

Re: 1990..then again you told us how great Breske was

Originally posted by CougEd:
and showed stat after stat.

Mora was fired cause Allen wanted splash. Mora can coach and has proven so both at college and pros.

Mora was fired because he was incompetent as coach of the Seahawks. It was not because of splash. Carroll's hiring was split. More than a lot of people around here hated him because he was the arrogant coach of USC. More than a lot of people around here thought he could not relate to professional players and used his previous coaching resume' with the Jets and Patriots as proof.

Allen is successful not because he cares about splash. That is Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder, etc., territory. Allen wanted Pete Carroll because he thought he would be good.

What has Mora proven in the pros? He is under .500 as a coach in the pros His Seahawk team was a disaster and poorly coached. He has done well in college, as he is better suited to the college game. Still, it is not like he is dominating at UCLA.

Regarding Breske, as that seems to be your favorite subject when it comes to me. I still think it is a talent issue more than anything. I would have been fine if Leach retained him. After the complete and utter disaster that Wulff left the program in, the rebuild will take longer at WSU. As bad as I thought it was under Wulff, it was even worse. Still, I also think it is probably a good move to replace Breske. I don't know the conversations that Leach has had with Breske. I don't the conversations Leach has had with Moos and how much the budget for a new DC will be.

As I wrote previously, talent, leadership, and experience hurt the defense. When the team lost the seniors off the 2012 team, it did not look good this year. You want to call that a fail for me, go ahead. I still have been right about almost everything going back to the red board days. You on the other hand...

 

[spongebob11]

Re: Wulffui

I am curious...what is your definition of saying something "bad" after we get our asses handed to us?

As I have said on many different ocassions, this is a football msg board...not cheer leading camp.

And to be honest, most of the time this yr it seemed as if circus music was playing in the background while watching this team.

I certainly did not see much good coaching worthy of a picking up the pom pom's for.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Re: Biggs...Pretty funny stuff...

Originally posted by BiggsCoug:

Originally posted by CougEd:
First, when you say "lot's of fans"...well that is pretty comical. I certainly remember a minority of fans after year three supporting the rebuild because there was improvement and hope.

"Shouting down fans--- sure you and I disagree. We certainly disagree of the state of the program that was left behind by a coach who inherited a Rose Bowl team, and we certainly disagreed with the time it would take to rebuild. For me rebuild meant being respectable for more than a season. Seeing hope after the 2010 season with a starter at QB, LB in Mizel, Long, Hoffman Ellis etc things were improving. That is what we disagreed on. And I don't ever recall you or others being chastised for what you believed to be the best thing for the program, whether you thought Wulff was the wrong guy from day one to the wrong guy after year one, two or three. Matter of fact, I don't once ever you being questioned about your "Cougness, and that you want nothing but the best for WSU. And I certainly can't say that now.

You have selective memory if you don't remember reading countless posts of fans ripping each other over the Idiot Staff. Anyone that came out against him was shouted down and vice versa.

Vindicated for what? Our program being in the tubes? Great, you and 100 other people were correct. Now let me hand over your prize and others. What does your vindication win you? What is the prize? Who do I deliver it to? That is the funny part of the message board. Outside of a few people I couldn't tell you if they are tall or short, male or female, fat or skinny, nerd or jock. You get everyone is anonymous. You can tell me you are going to punch my lights out, but really what does that mean behind a computer screen. The point being that pounding our chest or admitting I was wrong doesn't mean squat in light of it means zero to be right or wrong compared to the state of the program. .

People like to be right on the internet. Their opinions are validated. They feel as if they've proven their thoughts correct to others. Especially over the last staff.

You were right, others were right, Wulff couldn't get it done in four years. Which is funny because you are now telling me it is a 8 year process. But be that as it may, what's the reward? 12-26? Great, you were right, the team we support is still batting .333, and heading into next year with a relatively unproven QB, a new DC bring in a new system, a back end that couldn't cover a sole in 2014 and has no where to go but up. The question remains how fast. Personally I would rather be wrong and have the Cougs above .500.

The Idiot Staff could coach for 20 years and it wouldn't make them good coaches. The guy just had a bad plan, hired bad coaches, had zero brand name when he started and by the end his brand was losing, couldn't evaluate talent for crap... and before you point to the small handful of guys that landed in NFL training camps, please acknowledge he signed 100+ kids. So if 5 of them made it into the NFL for as much as a cup of coffee, that's about as good as anyone walking into a high school wearing a PAC 12 school's polo shirt would do.

So should SpongeBob feel vindicated because early on he had a couple pops and made an emotional post and say he didn't think Leach was going to get it done? Should I feel vindicated because I felt after Doba it was a five year project because of no QB and no DT's? And if Leach does fail what's the prize for those who thought after year three he wouldn't make it?

You two knuckleheads can feel however you want. No one here cares. You do your own thing.

At the end of the day, right/wrong doesn't mean squat in comparison to where the program is.

FWIW, I was also right about Sterk being a sh(tty AD. And I caught holy hell for posting that on this message board. At the end of the day does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. But the program is much better off without him.

I'm glad my "Pac12 polo shirt" comment has gotten some legs. Use it often Biggs.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Re: Good grief Charlie Brown...

Originally posted by CougEd:
Great. people like to be right. Like with your girlfriend, you can say and be wrong and have the best make up sex you ever had, or you can spend the night by yourself. No lonely nights for CougEd, but that is just my approach.

What is not to like about Morton's coaching. Didn't he coach Olin Kruetz and several other Huskies who made it to the show? What about what he produced at WSU and ISU? USC? "Morton has coached five Pac-10 Morris Trophy winners, signifying the conference's best lineman. Additionally he has mentored four first-team All-America players, and NFL first-round draft choices Kwame Harris of Stanford and Lincoln Kennedy of Washington." Yeah, he can't coach.

Chris Tormey's resume I think speaks fro itself. Didn't he coach guys like Jason Chorak? Didn't he win at Idaho? Didn't he put quite a few players in the NFL.

So what you are telling me is Jody Sears equals Mike Breske, Volero equals Roberson, and Russell equals Niekamp. Not sure I disagree...wrong coaches at the wrong time.

Brand name...Price vs Donahue, Price vs Bellotti, Price vs Snyder, Price vs carroll, Price vs Tedford, Price vs Dirk Koetter. Walden vs Robinson, Walden vs Donahue, Walden vs James. Brand name is great, but as the past has shown us you better pick the right players. Like you said, Scoobey Wright vs anyone of Cal's lb's. Which head to head at this point do you think Leach is going to win? Dykes? Maybe. New OSU coach, probably. Peterson or Leach? Oregon coach or Leach? Shaw or Leach? Sarkisian or Leach? You see, it is a dumb argument.

And regarding Tuel, are you really going to make the argument that was because Leach coached him? I would suggest Leach actually hurts the players stock in the NFL, and not because they aren't coached well, but they are pegged to being "system QB's". And by the way, tell me how many yards Halliday had coming in for Marshal in 2011 against ASU? And tell me the end story of that game?

At least we have a coach that can win some recruiting battles against the OSUs, CUs, Utahs & Cals of the conference.

Wulff wasn't even consistently winning battles over Nevada, SDSU & Fresno.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Re: Biggs...Pretty funny stuff...

Fab, PAC 12 polo is the truth about that staffs recruiting.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Re: Good grief Charlie Brown...

Originally posted by Fab5Coug:

Originally posted by CougEd:
Great. people like to be right. Like with your girlfriend, you can say and be wrong and have the best make up sex you ever had, or you can spend the night by yourself. No lonely nights for CougEd, but that is just my approach.

What is not to like about Morton's coaching. Didn't he coach Olin Kruetz and several other Huskies who made it to the show? What about what he produced at WSU and ISU? USC? "Morton has coached five Pac-10 Morris Trophy winners, signifying the conference's best lineman. Additionally he has mentored four first-team All-America players, and NFL first-round draft choices Kwame Harris of Stanford and Lincoln Kennedy of Washington." Yeah, he can't coach.

Chris Tormey's resume I think speaks fro itself. Didn't he coach guys like Jason Chorak? Didn't he win at Idaho? Didn't he put quite a few players in the NFL.

So what you are telling me is Jody Sears equals Mike Breske, Volero equals Roberson, and Russell equals Niekamp. Not sure I disagree...wrong coaches at the wrong time.

Brand name...Price vs Donahue, Price vs Bellotti, Price vs Snyder, Price vs carroll, Price vs Tedford, Price vs Dirk Koetter. Walden vs Robinson, Walden vs Donahue, Walden vs James. Brand name is great, but as the past has shown us you better pick the right players. Like you said, Scoobey Wright vs anyone of Cal's lb's. Which head to head at this point do you think Leach is going to win? Dykes? Maybe. New OSU coach, probably. Peterson or Leach? Oregon coach or Leach? Shaw or Leach? Sarkisian or Leach? You see, it is a dumb argument.

And regarding Tuel, are you really going to make the argument that was because Leach coached him? I would suggest Leach actually hurts the players stock in the NFL, and not because they aren't coached well, but they are pegged to being "system QB's". And by the way, tell me how many yards Halliday had coming in for Marshal in 2011 against ASU? And tell me the end story of that game?

At least we have a coach that can win some recruiting battles against the OSUs, CUs, Utahs & Cals of the conference.

Wulff wasn't even consistently winning battles over Nevada, SDSU & Fresno.

If the kid is a QB at least make it a difficult decision for him. I think Leach wins versus uw, osu, uo, cal, ucla, asu, ua, utah, cu, etc. sc, stanford might be tough. Any QB is gonna want to speak with Leach about throwing the ball. That's what they do. Now, if we're talking running backs, might be tougher. Have to find the right kid that puts value on catching out of the backfield.

Tuel. Jesus. I have never seen a player get so many opportunities while having produced so little. Hardly played in high school, gets to PAC 12 team. Hardly plays in college, gets to NFL. Simply amazing. He gets coaches fired if he plays so I don't expect him to stick long in professional sports. At least if the coach wants to keep his paycheck. Tuel has more lucky stars then Dennis Erickson.

How many of those performances did CH have again under Idiot? None. Lacerated liver, beat to hell. If you want to say that Idiot gets 2% credit for getting the local kid to stay home, fine. The other 98% goes to Leach cause it was his coaching that put him on the map.

 

[wulffui]

Re: Good grief Charlie Brown...

Oh, are we talking about NFL QB Jeff Tuel? And I'll go further- once Connor had internal injuries, he wasn't the same guy in the pocket, and it wasn't really fixable; in essence, Leach's best piece was a busted unit because of the last coach. That's why all I really wanted to see of Falk was not being maimed.