Wulff fired at USF
- Thread starter MikeFingLeach
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Hmm that's strange I could have sworn I saw some guy named BullTed talking about how Wulff was doing it the right way, and that Tim Fallden was ranting on the radio about how it was a huge mistake and the athletic department didn't know what it was doing letting go the great Paul Wulff.
It's okay though BullTed said he knew who the new replacement was Saul Yulff. He worked for Harbaugh, not Jim, or John, but Zeke Harbaugh from the Walla Walla pop warner Wolverines. He's a genius. ,
It's okay though BullTed said he knew who the new replacement was Saul Yulff. He worked for Harbaugh, not Jim, or John, but Zeke Harbaugh from the Walla Walla pop warner Wolverines. He's a genius. ,
If I'm Eastern, I'd never do that. It's admitting that WSU's rejects are good enough for EWU, which -- while completely accurate -- isn't the message I'd want to send.
He also screwed up and violated some NCAA rules while there.
I don't think it's so much joy over him being fired. There was plenty of vitriol over him as the coach between fans. Lots of fans that were squarely in his camp were made to look like fools once the bottom fell out of his program... that they had spent years shouting down the fans that saw right thru his house of cards. And now that he's been fired again for some it is vindication that they were right all along about his ability as a football coach.
I wish this ship would just sail away. WSU and it's fans have better things going now to talk about then a former coach that has been fired.
FWIW, Im sure he'll do well in insurance sales.
I agree, to get WSU to the point of having winning seasons every year, or virtually every year will take 8-10 years, with the same coach. if we cut bait every 4 years the ups and downs will never stop
Basically this.Originally posted by BiggsCoug:
I don't think it's so much joy over him being fired. There was plenty of vitriol over him as the coach between fans. Lots of fans that were squarely in his camp were made to look like fools once the bottom fell out of his program... that they had spent years shouting down the fans that saw right thru his house of cards. And now that he's been fired again for some it is vindication that they were right all along about his ability as a football coach.
I wish this ship would just sail away. WSU and it's fans have better things going now to talk about then a former coach that has been fired.
FWIW, Im sure he'll do well in insurance sales.
Biggs, you've stated this a few times. At first I kinda dropped my jaw then thought "he's hedging his bets. Go extreme and then when we turn the corner, we still are good. Positive/Positive." But you've kinda won me over on this. I think my initial definition of "build" is different than yours was. I saw us getting to a bowl next year, or the next, as a real turnaround. You aren't (I'm guessing). To you, a "build" is a bowl every year, for 5 years (correct?). Anyways, you've won me over on this
I also think CML is in the same boat. I think he's here to prove himself, the same as at TT. He was there for the duration. He wanted to make TT a perennial.
Now I think he wants to make WSU a perennial. That takes stability. So he wants to be here long term. And I think he's doing it to prove to the doubters that the AirRaid is valid, regardless of the opponent, season, decade, etc. etc. He's going to grind until he's successful Geronimo. Not the best book but interesting and enlightening into his perspective and way of thinking.
Biggs...Pretty funny stuff...
First, when you say "lot's of fans"...well that is pretty comical. I certainly remember a minority of fans after year three supporting the rebuild because there was improvement and hope.
"Shouting down fans--- sure you and I disagree. We certainly disagree of the state of the program that was left behind by a coach who inherited a Rose Bowl team, and we certainly disagreed with the time it would take to rebuild. For me rebuild meant being respectable for more than a season. Seeing hope after the 2010 season with a starter at QB, LB in Mizel, Long, Hoffman Ellis etc things were improving. That is what we disagreed on. And I don't ever recall you or others being chastised for what you believed to be the best thing for the program, whether you thought Wulff was the wrong guy from day one to the wrong guy after year one, two or three. Matter of fact, I don't once ever you being questioned about your "Cougness, and that you want nothing but the best for WSU. And I certainly can't say that now.
Vindicated for what? Our program being in the tubes? Great, you and 100 other people were correct. Now let me hand over your prize and others. What does your vindication win you? What is the prize? Who do I deliver it to? That is the funny part of the message board. Outside of a few people I couldn't tell you if they are tall or short, male or female, fat or skinny, nerd or jock. You get everyone is anonymous. You can tell me you are going to punch my lights out, but really what does that mean behind a computer screen. The point being that pounding our chest or admitting I was wrong doesn't mean squat in light of it means zero to be right or wrong compared to the state of the program. .
You were right, others were right, Wulff couldn't get it done in four years. Which is funny because you are now telling me it is a 8 year process. But be that as it may, what's the reward? 12-26? Great, you were right, the team we support is still batting .333, and heading into next year with a relatively unproven QB, a new DC bring in a new system, a back end that couldn't cover a sole in 2014 and has no where to go but up. The question remains how fast. Personally I would rather be wrong and have the Cougs above .500.
So should SpongeBob feel vindicated because early on he had a couple pops and made an emotional post and say he didn't think Leach was going to get it done? Should I feel vindicated because I felt after Doba it was a five year project because of no QB and no DT's? And if Leach does fail what's the prize for those who thought after year three he wouldn't make it?
At the end of the day, right/wrong doesn't mean squat in comparison to where the program is.
First, when you say "lot's of fans"...well that is pretty comical. I certainly remember a minority of fans after year three supporting the rebuild because there was improvement and hope.
"Shouting down fans--- sure you and I disagree. We certainly disagree of the state of the program that was left behind by a coach who inherited a Rose Bowl team, and we certainly disagreed with the time it would take to rebuild. For me rebuild meant being respectable for more than a season. Seeing hope after the 2010 season with a starter at QB, LB in Mizel, Long, Hoffman Ellis etc things were improving. That is what we disagreed on. And I don't ever recall you or others being chastised for what you believed to be the best thing for the program, whether you thought Wulff was the wrong guy from day one to the wrong guy after year one, two or three. Matter of fact, I don't once ever you being questioned about your "Cougness, and that you want nothing but the best for WSU. And I certainly can't say that now.
Vindicated for what? Our program being in the tubes? Great, you and 100 other people were correct. Now let me hand over your prize and others. What does your vindication win you? What is the prize? Who do I deliver it to? That is the funny part of the message board. Outside of a few people I couldn't tell you if they are tall or short, male or female, fat or skinny, nerd or jock. You get everyone is anonymous. You can tell me you are going to punch my lights out, but really what does that mean behind a computer screen. The point being that pounding our chest or admitting I was wrong doesn't mean squat in light of it means zero to be right or wrong compared to the state of the program. .
You were right, others were right, Wulff couldn't get it done in four years. Which is funny because you are now telling me it is a 8 year process. But be that as it may, what's the reward? 12-26? Great, you were right, the team we support is still batting .333, and heading into next year with a relatively unproven QB, a new DC bring in a new system, a back end that couldn't cover a sole in 2014 and has no where to go but up. The question remains how fast. Personally I would rather be wrong and have the Cougs above .500.
So should SpongeBob feel vindicated because early on he had a couple pops and made an emotional post and say he didn't think Leach was going to get it done? Should I feel vindicated because I felt after Doba it was a five year project because of no QB and no DT's? And if Leach does fail what's the prize for those who thought after year three he wouldn't make it?
At the end of the day, right/wrong doesn't mean squat in comparison to where the program is.
I went silent after year one as well...So what conclusions
did you just come up with.
Since Sponge is my brother I know exactly why he didn't post after year one. And I know why he is now posting. And it has zip to do with feeling "vindicated". What a stupid f-in reason. Here in a nutshell is what you are saying...I woulod rather be correct/right on a message board and feel vindicated among people who I don't know their true names or identity's vs. watching my team be successful and have a successful coach. I would rather be correct than going to the Rose Bowls we attended, or the other bowl games we went to, save the Sun Bowl. Not sure you could make a more ridiculous statement.
did you just come up with.
Since Sponge is my brother I know exactly why he didn't post after year one. And I know why he is now posting. And it has zip to do with feeling "vindicated". What a stupid f-in reason. Here in a nutshell is what you are saying...I woulod rather be correct/right on a message board and feel vindicated among people who I don't know their true names or identity's vs. watching my team be successful and have a successful coach. I would rather be correct than going to the Rose Bowls we attended, or the other bowl games we went to, save the Sun Bowl. Not sure you could make a more ridiculous statement.
Re: I went silent after year one as well...So what conclusions
While I tend to agree with your logical point, reality points to a different conclusion. Otherwise, CPW would never be mentioned again. And regardless of what "side" you are on that specific coach, people want to be "right". People don't write something and think of the logical conclusion of what that could mean 2 or 3 years down the road... Hence CPW continues to be brought up sadly.
While I tend to agree with your logical point, reality points to a different conclusion. Otherwise, CPW would never be mentioned again. And regardless of what "side" you are on that specific coach, people want to be "right". People don't write something and think of the logical conclusion of what that could mean 2 or 3 years down the road... Hence CPW continues to be brought up sadly.
Re: Well congrats to those where correct...12-26 or 9 and 40
Agreed. But it's human nature. I know I've done it. You've done it, I'm sure. I'd wager most have. For those that haven't, you're a very even-keeled, thoughtful, controlled person. Good for you. But people get caught up in their own perspective and fight for their beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. To me, that's actually a good thing. But sometimes they aren't thinking of what that logic would mean to the WSU program 1 or 2 years down the road, either.
It is what it is. Just to note the pattern in human behavior is a good step, IMHO. But to think people are so logical is ignoring Human Nature Ego is a huge influence in ALL humans. Controlling it is/should be a continual fight.
Agreed. But it's human nature. I know I've done it. You've done it, I'm sure. I'd wager most have. For those that haven't, you're a very even-keeled, thoughtful, controlled person. Good for you. But people get caught up in their own perspective and fight for their beliefs. Nothing wrong with that. To me, that's actually a good thing. But sometimes they aren't thinking of what that logic would mean to the WSU program 1 or 2 years down the road, either.
It is what it is. Just to note the pattern in human behavior is a good step, IMHO. But to think people are so logical is ignoring Human Nature Ego is a huge influence in ALL humans. Controlling it is/should be a continual fight.
Re: I went silent after year one as well...So what conclusions
Well, when you climb the hill to proclaim failure, then only show up when your proclamation seems accurate, it's a pretty easy conclusion to draw. When you take it a step further like you often do, by only counting Leach's odd-numbered years because doing it that way... man, what's the perfect word here... VALIDATES your previous proclamation, well, you may not like the conclusion I reached- but the reason that propels it is pretty sound.
Also, people against Wulff never had to "pick and choose" the worse years to make their case- they were all worse years.
Well, when you climb the hill to proclaim failure, then only show up when your proclamation seems accurate, it's a pretty easy conclusion to draw. When you take it a step further like you often do, by only counting Leach's odd-numbered years because doing it that way... man, what's the perfect word here... VALIDATES your previous proclamation, well, you may not like the conclusion I reached- but the reason that propels it is pretty sound.
Also, people against Wulff never had to "pick and choose" the worse years to make their case- they were all worse years.
Yes...one ill advised emotional post after a bad loss to CU
proclaiming you don't think Leach will get it done at WSU certainly fits the description of "climbing the hill" to proclaim failure. I don't like your conclusion cause it is f-in retarded.
People stop posting for a variety of reasons. Out of country, hyper focused on a business plan, not liking someone on the board, a death in the family. But to think a coug would some how rejoice in a coaches failure is plain stupid, and to think being right some how is more important than the Cougs winning is plain crazy.
So if a drunken post is a proclamation, then you are correct, he did it. Continue to hold that sentiment I suppose then it for sure will make your assumptions seem more real.
proclaiming you don't think Leach will get it done at WSU certainly fits the description of "climbing the hill" to proclaim failure. I don't like your conclusion cause it is f-in retarded.
People stop posting for a variety of reasons. Out of country, hyper focused on a business plan, not liking someone on the board, a death in the family. But to think a coug would some how rejoice in a coaches failure is plain stupid, and to think being right some how is more important than the Cougs winning is plain crazy.
So if a drunken post is a proclamation, then you are correct, he did it. Continue to hold that sentiment I suppose then it for sure will make your assumptions seem more real.
It is one thing to fight for your beliefs...
it is another to feel validated at the expense of your alma mater. And more important, moving forward it is even crazier to think Wulff, Leach, Walden, Erickson mean more to the school than the school itself.
Biggs and I talked back in 2010, when I thought the best scenario moving forward was to keep Wulff around based on what I saw the last three games of the year. A win over OSU, who I am sure was overlooking the Cougs, and a seven point game against the UW where the Dawgs (led by a first round draft pick at QB) had to score with a buck 44 to take the lead. That gave me hope. That showed me they were going in the right direction. Even at that time I said keep him, until Biggs said what if we could get Leach, he is available. I would have fired Wulff on the spot, and I told Biggs so at the time. But we didn't have the financial resources and it wasn't an option. So I thought it was better to stand pat.
No moving forward, even though the last game of the year was a blow out, I will support Leach to get through 2016. Where I once thought it was a certainty, questions do pop in my head, like how in Wulff's year three do we play the final game more competitively. How did this years Apple Cup become such a non game? But that is short term, short term analysis, and things will change and I will hope the defensive backfield gets straightened out.
it is another to feel validated at the expense of your alma mater. And more important, moving forward it is even crazier to think Wulff, Leach, Walden, Erickson mean more to the school than the school itself.
Biggs and I talked back in 2010, when I thought the best scenario moving forward was to keep Wulff around based on what I saw the last three games of the year. A win over OSU, who I am sure was overlooking the Cougs, and a seven point game against the UW where the Dawgs (led by a first round draft pick at QB) had to score with a buck 44 to take the lead. That gave me hope. That showed me they were going in the right direction. Even at that time I said keep him, until Biggs said what if we could get Leach, he is available. I would have fired Wulff on the spot, and I told Biggs so at the time. But we didn't have the financial resources and it wasn't an option. So I thought it was better to stand pat.
No moving forward, even though the last game of the year was a blow out, I will support Leach to get through 2016. Where I once thought it was a certainty, questions do pop in my head, like how in Wulff's year three do we play the final game more competitively. How did this years Apple Cup become such a non game? But that is short term, short term analysis, and things will change and I will hope the defensive backfield gets straightened out.
Re: Yes...one ill advised emotional post after a bad loss to CU
Yes, a drunken post- that he constantly backs up with his future posts- maybe you missed the "Leach is a sh-tty coach" post right after the Apple Cup- is a "proclamation" that he expects Leach to fail. Not that it's a desired outcome, but the expected one.
There are a lot of reasons for not posting, but given that those reasons mysteriously vanished when the needle moved in his direction, I don't think any of them are applicable here- as his brother, you'd know better, though.
I also haven't said anyone would choose failure over success. But your idea that the people who picked failure are as invested as those who chose success, and definitely wouldn't want to show they were right is, in your charming vernacular- f-in' retarded. Especially if they were wrong about the last coach, and got to hear about it from people who were right.
Yes, a drunken post- that he constantly backs up with his future posts- maybe you missed the "Leach is a sh-tty coach" post right after the Apple Cup- is a "proclamation" that he expects Leach to fail. Not that it's a desired outcome, but the expected one.
There are a lot of reasons for not posting, but given that those reasons mysteriously vanished when the needle moved in his direction, I don't think any of them are applicable here- as his brother, you'd know better, though.
I also haven't said anyone would choose failure over success. But your idea that the people who picked failure are as invested as those who chose success, and definitely wouldn't want to show they were right is, in your charming vernacular- f-in' retarded. Especially if they were wrong about the last coach, and got to hear about it from people who were right.
You either hire the right guy and stick with him until it gets done OR you have consistent success hiring the right guy consecutively. Very few programs have been able to do that.
The only reason you cut bait and start over is if the guy just digs a hole so deep that he can't get out of it.
Being "built," to me, is at least 5 straight years of winning seasons. You might have some ups and downs in those 5 years, but Im talking 9 wins to 7 wins then back to 9 wins.
While off topic, what is OSU gonna do? I know they had some fans that couldn't wait for Riley to hit the road. Which is fine. But this hire is crucial for them. Hire the wrong guy and they're right back where they were. Don't build facilities for this guy in the PAC 12 arms race and he's just as good (more likely worse) than Riley.
According to the official Oregon State athletics Twitter account, there will be a press conference tomorrow afternoon to announce "significant enhancements to [their] football facilities."
Link: https://twitter.com/beaverathletics/status/542384724434354176
Re: I went silent after year one as well...So what conclusions
like you chose to do in this post?
I'm surprised how (or why) people feel the need to die on the cross for any coach. I get behind all of our coaches, but as soon as it's apparent that things are heading south, I cut bait an move on. My loyalties are to WSU, not to individual cogs. The faces and names change all the time, and the coaches (in most cases), aren't even part of our alumni.
How the world would you know what is applicable?
And what isn't? I already told you there are other reasons for his and my absent in 2013. Yes, I saw that post of his, probably another time when he should not have posted. It sure seems like a ball game was going on then, and emotions take their course.
Who cares about being wrong about the last coach. He wanted Wulff fired as well. So being unhappy with Leach has zip to do with Wulff.
My charming "vernacular" is spot on and correct. Those who supported Wulff chose to do so because they felt continuity was the best for the program, in light of the hiring options and budget. They didn't "choose between success and failure because we don't have success yet.
Oh, and the last sentence is about revenge of the Wulffians. Got it. I wonder sometimes if people on this board actually have been in a relationship. In mine, I am always wrong so ego has very little place in it.
And what isn't? I already told you there are other reasons for his and my absent in 2013. Yes, I saw that post of his, probably another time when he should not have posted. It sure seems like a ball game was going on then, and emotions take their course.
Who cares about being wrong about the last coach. He wanted Wulff fired as well. So being unhappy with Leach has zip to do with Wulff.
My charming "vernacular" is spot on and correct. Those who supported Wulff chose to do so because they felt continuity was the best for the program, in light of the hiring options and budget. They didn't "choose between success and failure because we don't have success yet.
Oh, and the last sentence is about revenge of the Wulffians. Got it. I wonder sometimes if people on this board actually have been in a relationship. In mine, I am always wrong so ego has very little place in it.
Re: I went silent after year one as well...So what conclusions
You really don't see a difference between throwing my opinion on human nature out there to explain a crazy argument that's driveled on for close to 6 years (think of that timespan this is pathetic. Is this going to go on for a decade?), and ego driven poison spewed with anger, infused with mass-ego? Yeah, I used "CPW" in my post. But not in anger, not to vindicate myself, not to stir the pot. I was agreeing with Ed, just continuing the thought on human behavior, Fishie.
You really don't see a difference between throwing my opinion on human nature out there to explain a crazy argument that's driveled on for close to 6 years (think of that timespan this is pathetic. Is this going to go on for a decade?), and ego driven poison spewed with anger, infused with mass-ego? Yeah, I used "CPW" in my post. But not in anger, not to vindicate myself, not to stir the pot. I was agreeing with Ed, just continuing the thought on human behavior, Fishie.
They're already behind. So while most of the schools are done and showing off their new digs to recruits, OSU is going to show off blueprints and construction sites. Which aren't necessarily bad, but not necessarily right now. And right now is important for some kids.
OK, so I just...
...need to assume that outlandish posts should be ignored, as they're not actual opinions, but merely demon whiskey speaking on someone's behalf.
And all the things you listed as valid reasons for not posting- and those reasons are valid... in the real world those things don't evaporate the exact moment you can say you're right about a football coach. Yet somehow, in this circumstance, they did. Undoubtedly, total coincidence.
...need to assume that outlandish posts should be ignored, as they're not actual opinions, but merely demon whiskey speaking on someone's behalf.
And all the things you listed as valid reasons for not posting- and those reasons are valid... in the real world those things don't evaporate the exact moment you can say you're right about a football coach. Yet somehow, in this circumstance, they did. Undoubtedly, total coincidence.
Did you feel equally "unvidicated" when
you were wrong about the one back offense with the fullback from Othello and wanting to run the ball with three yards and a cloud of dust. You were wrong about wanting to fire Price. See, at the end of the day is vindication really a motivating factor. Is being right more important than the Cougs winning? OK you were right about Wulff. Now what? We are in a similar position. We just finished off year three with an Apple cup loss that was less competitive to year three of "Turd's" third year, and we were 3-9 with a record setting QB. So if being right on the internet and the validation among people you don't even know trumps Cougs wins and losses, then it is a strange place.
You make such sweeping generalizations. The idiot staff? Levy? Couldn't recruit but great position coach. Morton is a very good Oline coach. Broussard sucked. Ball was very good. The guy who replaced Roberson was very well thought of. Tormey has a great resume. Sturdy seems to be doing ok.
Staffs are static. Just like what happened to Leach. You have to give them time to show you what they can and can't do.
Brand name. What Brand name? The closest thing to Brand Name was 2002. Bad plan? The plan was the right plan with no room for error. He could not have afforded to miss (like Leach did with the DB's year one) at the offensive line in year one. HE needed those guys to be available 2010 and 2011. He didn't. he then went the JC route heavy (six players) in order to cleanup the mistake and get ready players. Sound familiar.
The strict talent evaluation we could debate forever. All I know is he left two NFL Qb's, and recruited one before he started for Clovis West.
And probably the only area I would agree with you is about Sterk and Rawlins, and I will forever lay this at his feet. Saving 800k per year cost him 10 fold of that figure.
you were wrong about the one back offense with the fullback from Othello and wanting to run the ball with three yards and a cloud of dust. You were wrong about wanting to fire Price. See, at the end of the day is vindication really a motivating factor. Is being right more important than the Cougs winning? OK you were right about Wulff. Now what? We are in a similar position. We just finished off year three with an Apple cup loss that was less competitive to year three of "Turd's" third year, and we were 3-9 with a record setting QB. So if being right on the internet and the validation among people you don't even know trumps Cougs wins and losses, then it is a strange place.
You make such sweeping generalizations. The idiot staff? Levy? Couldn't recruit but great position coach. Morton is a very good Oline coach. Broussard sucked. Ball was very good. The guy who replaced Roberson was very well thought of. Tormey has a great resume. Sturdy seems to be doing ok.
Staffs are static. Just like what happened to Leach. You have to give them time to show you what they can and can't do.
Brand name. What Brand name? The closest thing to Brand Name was 2002. Bad plan? The plan was the right plan with no room for error. He could not have afforded to miss (like Leach did with the DB's year one) at the offensive line in year one. HE needed those guys to be available 2010 and 2011. He didn't. he then went the JC route heavy (six players) in order to cleanup the mistake and get ready players. Sound familiar.
The strict talent evaluation we could debate forever. All I know is he left two NFL Qb's, and recruited one before he started for Clovis West.
And probably the only area I would agree with you is about Sterk and Rawlins, and I will forever lay this at his feet. Saving 800k per year cost him 10 fold of that figure.
