dgibbons said:

You seem to be worried more about the MWC than WSU, and what exactly in this post relates to urgency?

The Holiday Bowl had the fourth selection, and the Sun Bowl the fifth selection. Those are third tier bowls. The conferences receive the distribution not the participating schools.

For #5, you are attempting to present a false dichotomy. Look it up if you don't know what that means.

The Big XII poached FORMER PAC-12 SCHOOLS, NOT MWC SCHOOLS (if all caps, bold and italics don't emphasize this enough, pretend Gloria asked you nicely to read that three times and think about it for five minutes). If the current MWC schools brought enough to the table to be poached, they would no longer be MWC schools. They would have been poached already.

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I did have to look false dichotomy up. A bit of a blow to my all-knowing stature. I'll give you that one grudgingly. In 2023, 30 bowls had smaller (most of them much smaller) payouts than the Holiday Bowl. But no matter. It is a bowl that would be nice to keep in the Pac (not much chance but not zero IMHO).

Coug90 said:

I don’t think that’s what anyone is arguing. What we seem to not agree on is UW being some unstoppable force. Historically in the Pac UW has had financial advantages vs their conference counterparts and went through a number of decade long stretches of pretty mediocre performance.

How are they going to all of a sudden be a juggernaut in a conference in in which half of the teams have a more impressive football history and ALL of the teams have a financial advantage for the next several years?

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I haven't seen a single person say they are going to be a "juggernaut" in the B1G or anything remotely close to that. The argument of this board is that they will be complete shit which I find hilarious.

CougPatrol said:

Team was pretty good last year. Conference was the best it's been in 20 years.

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Other than having a bad OL, no run game, and inconsistent QB play that put too much pressure on the defense...yeah, they were pretty good.

The Beavs and Cougs will hold tight for a few months, maybe all the way through the end of the year. Then we will start hearing rumors of "Pac-12 expansion" when the Beavs/Cougs have a better sense of the ACC situation (which is frankly the other realistic option in the near term).

If we do expand, I don't see a scenario where any of the current Big-12 schools crawl back to the new look Pac-12...like ever.

The only scenario in the future would be the Big-12 adding WSU or OSU (unlikely) or the ACC west idea taking shape at a later date.

The biggest homerun at this point is the ACC-west. Doesn't' mean it will happen, but that is the best play. WSU/OSU are the two best properties out there and if the ACC loses members, we are in a good position to get scooped up.

Possible I'm reading too much into this, but on the WSU Presidential search FAQ page, there's a question asking what Schulz will be focused on during his last year. There are 4 items. The 4th one is:

Stabilizing Athletics: Ensuring WSU student-athletes play competitively on the West Coast securing our place in an ever-changing athletic environment. (my emphasis)

The literal read of this - and again, maybe I shouldn't take it so literally - is that we wouldn't be interested in an ACC option, and probably not even a Big 12 one. Unless someone puts together enough western teams to form a west coast division (which would look pretty similar to the Pac-10/12), I think this suggests we're looking MWC.

Well, this, and basically every bit of sensible analysis of anything that appears remotely likely.

Cougini5591 said:

For all of the strengths that Ward had, I will be a lot happier if we can refrain from 15-yard sacks, high exposure fumbles, and 90% of our scoring in the 1st 20-25 minutes

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I don’t think Mateer is going to be run first, but he’s not going to hesitate to tuck it and go when nothing is there unlike Cam. He’s going to present that challenge where he’s basically an extra guy on the field, and defenses will use an extra coverage guy to spy him or they will get burned.

BowDown253 said:

You guys keep thinking the B1G is some unstoppable force when that just isn't the case. Michigan and Ohio State have a winning record against us throughout history, but you're still talking about playing once every 10 years. I think UW will hold their own over time in the B1G - you guys think we'll be a dumpster fire. The more likely outcome is there isn't even a B1G conference in another 5-10 years so it won't even matter in the long run.

Click to expand...

I don’t think that’s what anyone is arguing. What we seem to not agree on is UW being some unstoppable force. Historically in the Pac UW has had financial advantages vs their conference counterparts and went through a number of decade long stretches of pretty mediocre performance.

How are they going to all of a sudden be a juggernaut in a conference in in which half of the teams have a more impressive football history and ALL of the teams have a financial advantage for the next several years?

For all of the strengths that Ward had, I will be a lot happier if we can refrain from 15-yard sacks, high exposure fumbles, and 90% of our scoring in the 1st 20-25 minutes

The Vegas Bowl payout is low right now, but it's a free agent and assuming it picks up another B1G/SEC-type matchup, that bowl game will be a big one and the payout will go way up.

Loyal Coug1 said:

Well look at this. That's more like it, and some good counterpoints. I'll keep my counter-counters brief.
1. Media rights - I'd argue that having the two best draws in the mix from the getgo would be better
2. The Holiday pays 6.5M. Sun, 4.5 mil. Vegas, 2.9M. Hardly 3rd tier. If any are 3rd tier it's Vegas but we need that one.
3. Year 2 of those agreements (if cancelled) are not sunk costs yet, although the WCC exit penalty is stiff
4. See the semi-recent link that identifies SDSU as a potential add for the ACC. WSU? Not
5. Your counterpoint makes no sense
6 & 7. The ACC is not on the verge of collapse. The Big-12 just poached 4 of our schools. Not sure how translates into survival mode. That said, I keep asking this board (not just you and I don't need to hear Mik's opinion a fiftieth time) to present these other options (with revenue/costs) for consideration. Have yet to see one.

Good reply(s) though. I suppppppose I might give you another chance.

Click to expand...

You seem to be worried more about the MWC than WSU, and what exactly in this post relates to urgency?

The Holiday Bowl had the fourth selection, and the Sun Bowl the fifth selection. Those are third tier bowls. The conferences receive the distribution not the participating schools.

For #5, you are attempting to present a false dichotomy. Look it up if you don't know what that means.

The Big XII poached FORMER PAC-12 SCHOOLS, NOT MWC SCHOOLS (if all caps, bold and italics don't emphasize this enough, pretend Gloria asked you nicely to read that three times and think about it for five minutes). If the current MWC schools brought enough to the table to be poached, they would no longer be MWC schools. They would have been poached already.

dgibbons said:

Not really.

1. the MW media contract expires in 2 years. There is already talk about it. Way better for all involved if it is the new Pac-12/14 negotiating than an uncertain MW.

The contract can be written to provide for new entrants. That's what has occurred with contracts for other conferences. The current deal can be extended. A new contract could be voided or renegotiated upon entry of new members. All kinds of possibilities.


2. The current Pac bowl contracts expire in 2 years. Best to have the new Pac 12/14 in place well in advance of that if we want to try to salvage any of them. Not sure about the MW Bowl agreements (I'll find out), but could be similar if they want to dump the crappiest ones in favor of ours.

There is no shortage of bowls. I don't know why, I guess some cities enjoy losing money, ESPN needs programming in mid-December, or whatever. We're not keeping the Rose Bowl, or Alamo or Vegas no matter what happens. So we're talking about retaining 3rd tier bowls like the Holiday and the Sun.

3. In our current affiliation agreements, we can't win the league in FB, and are paying through the nose for the privilege of playing the MW. With no media rights except whatever pittance we can get from the CW (for which the FY25 budget is $-0-). I guess we are eligible to win league in the wcc in BB, but we don't get to share in any NCAA money generated by the league - even if our teams generate it. And we are paying to play, although much less than in FB.

So what? Sunk cost. Joining the MWC now to commence after the 2025 season doesn't change any of that.

4. I would not at all bank on the MW waiting around on us for 2 years. This realignment that you speak of could quite easily stretch over to SDSU and/or UNLV. Or the MW could just say F-you we are just fine as we are if we jack them around for too long.

Again, wrong. There have been several rounds of realignment. If another conference wanted a current MWC that school would already be gone. Like Utah.


5. Our cash windfall(s) are already being spent, and it would be stupid to waste one dime of it on luring TBD teams into a new Pac. Which we need to maintain to get our NCAA money (I think $30 million in years 3-6). Not chump change for 2 teams to split.

Wonderful bean counting. And a completely false dichotomy. A merger or other arrangement with the MWC or reconstituting the Pac are not the only options.

6. I have yet to hear of any other realignment scenarios that are realistic and/or that don't just suck generally. A Western ACC pod including a handful of MW teams that we pay to have join? What f-ing ever. The Big-12? That ship has sailed and ain't coming back.

Pay attention. The ACC is on the verge of collapse. The Big XII is already in survival mode. Chaos is opportunity. And again- the MWC isn't going anywhere.

I'm sure there are more reasons. Oh yeah - #7. The sooner we reverse merge, the sooner we can close the existing Pac-12 offices and turn the MW's into the Pac-12/14. How many millions is that costing us currently?

Again, lovely bean counting. Throwing in the towel while there are genuine possibilities to remain in/join a power conference don't justify that. And why do the existing Pac-12 offices need to be completely closed, rather than just scaled down? The wind up of the Pac-12 networks has to be done by someone not named Kirk Schulz or Interim AD Anne McCoy. But I guess you and Gloria could ride off into the sunset in Mazda Miata.

I took less than ten minutes to write this.

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Well look at this. That's more like it, and some good counterpoints. I'll keep my counter-counters brief.
1. Media rights - I'd argue that having the two best draws in the mix from the getgo would be better
2. The Holiday pays 6.5M. Sun, 4.5 mil. Vegas, 2.9M. Hardly 3rd tier. If any are 3rd tier it's Vegas but we need that one.
3. Year 2 of those agreements (if cancelled) are not sunk costs yet, although the WCC exit penalty is stiff
4. See the semi-recent link that identifies SDSU as a potential add for the ACC. WSU? Not
5. Your counterpoint makes no sense
6 & 7. The ACC is not on the verge of collapse. The Big-12 just poached 4 of our schools. Not sure how translates into survival mode. That said, I keep asking this board (not just you and I don't need to hear Mik's opinion a fiftieth time) to present these other options (with revenue/costs) for consideration. Have yet to see one.

Good reply(s) though. I suppppppose I might give you another chance.

BowDown253 said:

You guys keep thinking the B1G is some unstoppable force when that just isn't the case. Michigan and Ohio State have a winning record against us throughout history, but you're still talking about playing once every 10 years. I think UW will hold their own over time in the B1G - you guys think we'll be a dumpster fire. The more likely outcome is there isn't even a B1G conference in another 5-10 years so it won't even matter in the long run.

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"Hold your own" means what? Overall record over .500, and .400 in conference? Third place in your division as the ceiling?

BowDown253 said:

Triggered by me posting the complete records of both of our teams?

How about I repost it and just take out every single winning season UW has ever had to make you feel better.

Do I think UW is Alabama? Clearly not. They would be somewhere in the 15-20 range as far best college programs over history. Hardly mediocre.

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Liar, liar, pants on fire.

BowDown253 said:

They are exactly 25th by win percentage - with 8 teams ahead of them that haven't been relevant since people were going to games via horse and buggy. So that puts them in the 15-20 range as I said. Out of how many division 1 teams??? Hardly mediocre. Continue to cope.

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Most of the 70's below average, changed in 1977. 78 and 79 they were average. So most of the 70's below average. 80-84 above average, 85-90 average. 90-93 after cheating were above average(dominate in 1991...lost last three games in 92.) 93-to 2000 average. Cheated again and were Rose Bowl in 2000. 01-03 they were average. 04-2012 below average to average. 13-15 average. 16-19 above average. They are 50/50 in 20 to 24.

They have an average history.

BowDown253 said:

UW starting at 50+ mil per year (30 mil per + 21 CFP share) - current Mountain West at 4 mil. OUCH!

Considering even some reformed "Pac" will get you to maybe 10 mil per I would say calling UW a "revenue cellar dwellar" is hilarious.

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In the B1G nitwit.

And how did your draft prognostication go? Not quite as glorious as you predicted. husky hubris in action.

come see bendover 253 fail in every thread

mikalalas said:

So you went to the CFP 2 times, and had a championship or 2 in 100 years, with 1 of your 2 CFP's FINALLY(BOUT TIME), happening last season.

WSU won a Natty or equivalent of a Natty, went to 2 Rosebowls, went 11-2 in 2018.

Reason mention that, is a difference between UW, and WSU is that when, if UW has a great season as a outlier, UW thinks it makes them elite, where when, if WSU has a great season, as a outlier, WSU does not think that makes them elite.

Tiers

Elite

Ohio St

Great

Michigan

Penn St

Oregon

USC

Good

Wisconsin

Michigan St

Above average

Nebraska

UCLA

UW

Mediocre, Average

That's 9 teams above you that either better then you, are better historically, are better traditionally, have more money, have better bigger recruiting area, recruiting, and usually better coaching(with the exception of UCLA, and throwing out your 1,2,3 good coaches as exceptions(WSU has had Price, Erickson, Leach, but that doesn't mean that WSU has had great coaching. Those good coaches were the exception, just like the 1,2,3 exception coaches at UW)

Next season. Your going to get pounded by the 9 teams above you. And you won't be getting a favorable schedule, favorable home schedule. And new coach, new players, almost all starters gone, massive defection via Transfer Portal, massive decommits, lower ranked recruiting class, etc

Because of that you'll finish 7-5 at best, 5-7, 6-6 at average, 4-8 at worst.

If USED TO BE ELITE Nebraska, who historically better then UW struggled when they went to Big 10, then UW will probably struggle as well.

Your the 10th best team in the Big 10, middle of the conference, just barely slightly above average, to average, mediocre

Stop being illogical, delusional thinking UW is going to be good, great in Big 10.

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Comparing our football programs is laughable. WSU natty? LMFAO. You have won 10 games or more 5 times in your entire 106 year history - we've done it 5 times in the last 8 years. Even in your best season in a generation your savior qb was left in tears because of UW.

Loyal Coug1 said:

Oh c'mon. ALL of my 7 reasons are germane to the conversation. Financial considerations, media monies, lack of revenue sharing under either affiliation agreement. Etc.

You just want to sit there and spew out insults rather than have an adult discussion or offer any intelligent feedback.

And the ACC is not on the brink of collapse. Read the sports news (hint - there is nothing recent of substance). And how is Gloria being cute for her age germane to the conversation?

F-it. You bring nothing to the table. I'm done wasting my keystrokes.

Click to expand...

Not really.

1. the MW media contract expires in 2 years. There is already talk about it. Way better for all involved if it is the new Pac-12/14 negotiating than an uncertain MW.

The contract can be written to provide for new entrants. That's what has occurred with contracts for other conferences. The current deal can be extended. A new contract could be voided or renegotiated upon entry of new members. All kinds of possibilities.


2. The current Pac bowl contracts expire in 2 years. Best to have the new Pac 12/14 in place well in advance of that if we want to try to salvage any of them. Not sure about the MW Bowl agreements (I'll find out), but could be similar if they want to dump the crappiest ones in favor of ours.

There is no shortage of bowls. I don't know why, I guess some cities enjoy losing money, ESPN needs programming in mid-December, or whatever. We're not keeping the Rose Bowl, or Alamo or Vegas no matter what happens. So we're talking about retaining 3rd tier bowls like the Holiday and the Sun.

3. In our current affiliation agreements, we can't win the league in FB, and are paying through the nose for the privilege of playing the MW. With no media rights except whatever pittance we can get from the CW (for which the FY25 budget is $-0-). I guess we are eligible to win league in the wcc in BB, but we don't get to share in any NCAA money generated by the league - even if our teams generate it. And we are paying to play, although much less than in FB.

So what? Sunk cost. Joining the MWC now to commence after the 2025 season doesn't change any of that.

4. I would not at all bank on the MW waiting around on us for 2 years. This realignment that you speak of could quite easily stretch over to SDSU and/or UNLV. Or the MW could just say F-you we are just fine as we are if we jack them around for too long.

Again, wrong. There have been several rounds of realignment. If another conference wanted a current MWC that school would already be gone. Like Utah.


5. Our cash windfall(s) are already being spent, and it would be stupid to waste one dime of it on luring TBD teams into a new Pac. Which we need to maintain to get our NCAA money (I think $30 million in years 3-6). Not chump change for 2 teams to split.

Wonderful bean counting. And a completely false dichotomy. A merger or other arrangement with the MWC or reconstituting the Pac are not the only options.

6. I have yet to hear of any other realignment scenarios that are realistic and/or that don't just suck generally. A Western ACC pod including a handful of MW teams that we pay to have join? What f-ing ever. The Big-12? That ship has sailed and ain't coming back.

Pay attention. The ACC is on the verge of collapse. The Big XII is already in survival mode. Chaos is opportunity. And again- the MWC isn't going anywhere.

I'm sure there are more reasons. Oh yeah - #7. The sooner we reverse merge, the sooner we can close the existing Pac-12 offices and turn the MW's into the Pac-12/14. How many millions is that costing us currently?

Again, lovely bean counting. Throwing in the towel while there are genuine possibilities to remain in/join a power conference don't justify that. And why do the existing Pac-12 offices need to be completely closed, rather than just scaled down? The wind up of the Pac-12 networks has to be done by someone not named Kirk Schulz or Interim AD Anne McCoy. But I guess you and Gloria could ride off into the sunset in Mazda Miata.

I took less than ten minutes to write this.

Good conversation. I suspect that how far we move toward RPO will depend partially upon whether we can get a TE who is both a good blocker and a pass catcher. Last year we had one or the other but not both. Maybe the blocker has better hands this year...or maybe one of the catchers has bulked up and improved his blocking technique. Either way, an RPO needs a TE who is a threat to do either if it is going to succeed.

Throwing on the run gets exponentially more difficult the longer the pass needs to be. Less than 10 yards is very different from 20+. I think Mateer would be fine with shorter passes on the run. The jury is out on longer passes, even if they are going in the same direction and directly in front of him. Those kind of passes are like trying to hit a golf ball if you are moving your front foot & shifting your eye height. Time will tell.

I think we have the pieces for a much better O line than last year if they are all healthy when it is time to play. Cross your fingers. If we have a low injury year, especially on the O line, we could have a group that can move the ball while eating some clock. You have to go back almost 20 years to find that at WSU.

Finally, the platoon system at RB might actually be OK. A fresh RB who can run, block or catch is a requirement, since there will be a lot of motion this year. Let's see who emerges. We have a lot of competition at this position.

You guys keep thinking the B1G is some unstoppable force when that just isn't the case. Michigan and Ohio State have a winning record against us throughout history, but you're still talking about playing once every 10 years. I think UW will hold their own over time in the B1G - you guys think we'll be a dumpster fire. The more likely outcome is there isn't even a B1G conference in another 5-10 years so it won't even matter in the long run.

mikalalas said:

The ACC won't take SDSU, UNLV. They would take Memphis, Tulane. Also the ACC is at great risk of the Big 10, SEC, Big 12, taking everybody in ACC, but Boston College, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, NC State, GUTTING the ACC

And SDSU, Fresno St, BSU would probably choose PAC X, over a GUTTED ACC

And even if the ACC would take SDSU, etc, it would probably be in about 6 to 9 to 12+ months from now, IF it happened.

Also the PAC 2 has probably already been talking with SDSU, probably telling them things like, we'll take you in about 1 year to 18 months, and here is why it will take that long.

Also SDSU has tried 2 times to join PAC, and got shut down by MWC conference, so SDSU really wants to join the PAC 2, rebuild the PAC

Your seeing monsters under the bed. WSU, PAC 2 needs to wait at least 4 to 6 to 8 months , before it does anything.

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dgibbons said:

Because none of them are germane to the conversation. Why are any of those urgent? Why would they preclude OSU and WSU from joining the MWC? The ACC is the brink of collapse. The Big XII gets poached constantly.

So again, WHY THE URGENCY to commit WSU to a group of 5 conference? You're basically saying that WSU should settle for the gal at the end of the bar two hours before closing time because it's easy and convenient. Are you really that enamored with the MWC commissioner?

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Oh c'mon. ALL of my 7 reasons are germane to the conversation. Financial considerations, media monies, lack of revenue sharing under either affiliation agreement. Etc.

You just want to sit there and spew out insults rather than have an adult discussion or offer any intelligent feedback.

And the ACC is not on the brink of collapse. Read the sports news (hint - there is nothing recent of substance). And how is Gloria being cute for her age germane to the conversation?

F-it. You bring nothing to the table. I'm done wasting my keystrokes.

mikalalas said:

So you went to the CFP 2 times, and had a championship or 2 in 100 years, with 1 of your 2 CFP's FINALLY(BOUT TIME), happening last season.

WSU won a Natty or equivalent of a Natty, went to 2 Rosebowls, went 11-2 in 2018.

Reason mention that, is a difference between UW, and WSU is that when, if UW has a great season as a outlier, UW thinks it makes them elite, where when, if WSU has a great season, as a outlier, WSU does not think that makes them elite.

Tiers

Elite

Ohio St

Great

Michigan

Penn St

Oregon

USC

Good

Wisconsin

Michigan St

Above average

Nebraska

UCLA

UW

Mediocre, Average

That's 9 teams above you that either better then you, are better historically, are better traditionally, have more money, have better bigger recruiting area, recruiting, and usually better coaching(with the exception of UCLA, and throwing out your 1,2,3 good coaches as exceptions(WSU has had Price, Erickson, Leach, but that doesn't mean that WSU has had great coaching. Those good coaches were the exception, just like the 1,2,3 exception coaches at UW)

Next season. Your going to get pounded by the 9 teams above you. And you won't be getting a favorable schedule, favorable home schedule. And new coach, new players, almost all starters gone, massive defection via Transfer Portal, massive decommits, lower ranked recruiting class, etc

Because of that you'll finish 7-5 at best, 5-7, 6-6 at average, 4-8 at worst.

If USED TO BE ELITE Nebraska, who historically better then UW struggled when they went to Big 10, then UW will probably struggle as well.

Your the 10th best team in the Big 10, middle of the conference, just barely slightly above average, to average, mediocre

Stop being illogical, delusional thinking UW is going to be good, great in Big 10.

Click to expand...

To be fair to UW, they are in the same tier as Iowa, Wisconsin and Michigan State. A lot of 7 or 8 win seasons to be had. They are definitely a team that is in danger of sliding down to Nebraska territory. Of course, that tier is also filled with teams like Northwestern, Purdue and Minnesota. They might be good in any given season, but just as likely to be 6-6.

Loyal Coug1 said:

And what might "they" (we) be looking for? And at what cost/benefit?

Also, how do you know that the MW will always be available? Before or after the allegedly soon to be broken ACC takes in SDSU and UNLV?

Click to expand...

The ACC won't take SDSU, UNLV. They would take Memphis, Tulane. Also the ACC is at great risk of the Big 10, SEC, Big 12, taking everybody in ACC, but Boston College, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, NC State, GUTTING the ACC

And SDSU, Fresno St, BSU would probably choose PAC X, over a GUTTED ACC

And even if the ACC would take SDSU, etc, it would probably be in about 6 to 9 to 12+ months from now, IF it happened.

Also the PAC 2 has probably already been talking with SDSU, probably telling them things like, we'll take you in about 1 year to 18 months, and here is why it will take that long.

Also SDSU has tried 2 times to join PAC, and got shut down by MWC conference, so SDSU really wants to join the PAC 2, rebuild the PAC

Your seeing monsters under the bed. WSU, PAC 2 needs to wait at least 4 to 6 to 8 months , before it does anything.