After watching Minshew in the Sr. Bowl- more convinced Leach is a wizard with special powers

[PINGDUDE4]

I hate it because Minshew quickly became one of my favorite players this year but in his reps in Sr. Bowl he really struggled with all of the basics : arm strength , accuracy , footwork and decision making. I know a real small sample , but for a guy that is a toss up between a low round draft pick and an UDFA these small samples with all of the scouts watching are very important.

Again reminded of how Leach has a special skill for getting the most out of his QB's and getting them in a comfort zone where they over perform their skill level. Really would like to see what Leach could do with a QB with elite level skills. Hoping Cooper will develop to that elite level or the EWU guy chooses WSU and comes in with a better base skill level than Minshew.

 

[Cougzz]

Sr. Bowl is known as a game in which QBs struggle. New teammates, different offense and lack of rapport with receivers makes it tough on all. Don’t make too much of his performance in this one scrimmage.

 

[kougkurt]

I hate it because Minshew quickly became one of my favorite players this year but in his reps in Sr. Bowl he really struggled with all of the basics : arm strength , accuracy , footwork and decision making. I know a real small sample , but for a guy that is a toss up between a low round draft pick and an UDFA these small samples with all of the scouts watching are very important.

Again reminded of how Leach has a special skill for getting the most out of his QB's and getting them in a comfort zone where they over perform their skill level. Really would like to see what Leach could do with a QB with elite level skills. Hoping Cooper will develop to that elite level or the EWU guy chooses WSU and comes in with a better base skill level than Minshew.

Quicker road to GA

 

[YakiCoug]

I hate it because Minshew quickly became one of my favorite players this year but in his reps in Sr. Bowl he really struggled with all of the basics : arm strength , accuracy , footwork and decision making. I know a real small sample , but for a guy that is a toss up between a low round draft pick and an UDFA these small samples with all of the scouts watching are very important.

Again reminded of how Leach has a special skill for getting the most out of his QB's and getting them in a comfort zone where they over perform their skill level. Really would like to see what Leach could do with a QB with elite level skills. Hoping Cooper will develop to that elite level or the EWU guy chooses WSU and comes in with a better base skill level than Minshew.

He can't play with his hand in the dirt.

 

[FnuLnu]

He can't play with his hand in the dirt.

His hands are too small/too big
His feet are too small/too big
It is is snowing/It is not snowing
His decision making isnt good like Jason Gesser or Ryan Leaf
He doesn't beat women like Warren Moon
Leach is recruiting too many linemen.

 

[YakiCoug]

His hands are too small/too big
His feet are too small/too big
It is is snowing/It is not snowing
His decision making isnt good like Jason Gesser or Ryan Leaf
He doesn't beat women like Warren Moon
Leach is recruiting too many linemen.

You forgot about his hips ...

 

[ATACFD]

I hate it because Minshew quickly became one of my favorite players this year but in his reps in Sr. Bowl he really struggled with all of the basics : arm strength , accuracy , footwork and decision making. I know a real small sample , but for a guy that is a toss up between a low round draft pick and an UDFA these small samples with all of the scouts watching are very important.

Again reminded of how Leach has a special skill for getting the most out of his QB's and getting them in a comfort zone where they over perform their skill level. Really would like to see what Leach could do with a QB with elite level skills. Hoping Cooper will develop to that elite level or the EWU guy chooses WSU and comes in with a better base skill level than Minshew.

It's got to be his hand size . Seriously, there have been many qb's who struggled in the Senior bowl and later went on to do well in the NFL It would have been nice if Gardner had done better than 1/8 so far, but it isn't the kiss of death.

 

[Coug90]

My understanding is the week of practice is the most important part of this. And sounded like he did well. Think it also speaks to how hard he likely worked at WSU to build rapport with his receivers in a short amount of time. I still wouldn’t bet against him and for a mid to late round pick it would’ve a good gamble for the right team.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Sr. Bowl is known as a game in which QBs struggle. New teammates, different offense and lack of rapport with receivers makes it tough on all. Don’t make too much of his performance in this one scrimmage.

Hard not to. Look at the stats. Every other QB did fine. WTH happened?

http://stats.statbroadcast.com/statmonitr/?id=247006

 

[PINGDUDE4]

My understanding is the week of practice is the most important part of this. And sounded like he did well. Think it also speaks to how hard he likely worked at WSU to build rapport with his receivers in a short amount of time. I still wouldn’t bet against him and for a mid to late round pick it would’ve a good gamble for the right team.

That work with the receivers is no doubt a factor. However hard to dismiss how many times I read posts from East Carolina fans on their board and elsewhere, that Gardner was simply not the same QB when he played for them as he was last season. Because I like the kid , I was hoping maybe just a light clicked on and he was ready to break out. Still not betting against him , but also think as I stated that Leach gets the absolute maximum performance out of the QB's that he coaches.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

One almost has to draw the conclusion that CML is the best QB coach among the current head coaches.

How else could you explain his track record?

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

Last year in the Senior Bowl

Baker Mayfield: 3-of-7 for 9yds

 

[Loyal Coug]

Last year in the Senior Bowl

Baker Mayfield: 3-of-7 for 9yds

That makes me feel better (really). Thanks.

 

[dgibbons]

A GA position is a pretty nice fallback option.

 

[ShockandAweWSU]

Tinsley and gordon could easily start. It's just Gubrud is a major upgrade. Its like going from Falk to Minshew. More talent.

 

[ShockandAweWSU]

Id love to see Minshew become a coach someday. People gravitate towards him and his leadership style.

 

[FnuLnu]

You just really like to bitch, correct?

"Leach is recruiting too many QBs" is the new "Leach is recruiting too many linemen"

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Really? Have some patience, they couldn’t beat out a guy who had a legendary year at WSU. Doesn’t mean all their careers are over. Look how long it took Minshew to figure it out. Wouldn’t shock me a bit of Gubruud gets beat out by one of these guys and whoever does it has another great year.

Gordon and Tinsley graduate this year. Neville and Bledsoe will never start at WSU and everyone knows it. Cooper and Cruz are the two guys that we are waiting to see. Leach had no trouble playing Falk as a sophomore so this isn't about wanting an upperclassman starting.

For the comment about recruiting too many QB's, thanks for missing the point. I didn't say that we recruited too many QB's. I said the fact that all of our "project" QB's failed to impress is evidence that wasting scholarships on a guy "just in case" is a good waste to waste a hundred thousand dollars. I'm fine with taking a QB in every class. I just want to make sure we are going after good ones if we are going to do it.

 

[kougkurt]

Gordon and Tinsley graduate this year. Neville and Bledsoe will never start at WSU and everyone knows it. Cooper and Cruz are the two guys that we are waiting to see. Leach had no trouble playing Falk as a sophomore so this isn't about wanting an upperclassman starting.

For the comment about recruiting too many QB's, thanks for missing the point. I didn't say that we recruited too many QB's. I said the fact that all of our "project" QB's failed to impress is evidence that wasting scholarships on a guy "just in case" is a good waste to waste a hundred thousand dollars. I'm fine with taking a QB in every class. I just want to make sure we are going after good ones if we are going to do it.

Falk has already thrown for 2,000 yards when he started his Sophomore year.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Falk has already thrown for 2,000 yards when he started his Sophomore year.

1859 yards and a 1-3 record....but who's counting?

Leach had plenty of QB's at Tech who took over the starting job without having a lot of game experience. BJ Symons only had 500 yards in three seasons before he started as a Senior and set school records in 2003. He had 43 attempts in 2002. Sonny Cumbie had 62 attempts before he threw for over 4,700 yards in 2004. Now, they were more mature than Cooper would be this year but this is 100% about Leach not getting QB's he could depend on in 2016 and 2017. It's too bad because I would have liked to have seen Neville get a chance to redeem himself after a tumultuous finish to his high school career but that's just how it goes.

As mentioned in the other thread, Leach rarely missed at Tech, so it's kind of crazy for us to be struggling now.

 

[mikalalas]

8 Eight win season from Tinsley.

7 win season from Gordon.

6 win season from Cooper.

9,10, 9.5 win season from Gage Gubrud.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

Neville, Bledsoe, Tinsley and Gordon didn't commit suicide.......

Other than Neville , none of those other 3 were even assigned star ratings by the services. I recall Bledsoe & Tinsley were both walk-ons and Gordon had no stars and was a June signee. You are really asking a lot for Leach to keep churning out these winning seasons and to continually do it with walk-ons or no star recruits at QB. He hit on Falk but from there he obviously was going a more traditional route with 4 star TH to be followed by Cooper or Cruz type. People seem to forget although TH had a clunker Bowl game , he did throw for over 400 yards in one half against Arizona. The guy sure showed signs that he could be dynamic. A tragedy obviously changed that set-up.

 

[Loyal Coug]

1859 yards and a 1-3 record....but who's counting?

Leach had plenty of QB's at Tech who took over the starting job without having a lot of game experience. BJ Symons only had 500 yards in three seasons before he started as a Senior and set school records in 2003. He had 43 attempts in 2002. Sonny Cumbie had 62 attempts before he threw for over 4,700 yards in 2004. Now, they were more mature than Cooper would be this year but this is 100% about Leach not getting QB's he could depend on in 2016 and 2017. It's too bad because I would have liked to have seen Neville get a chance to redeem himself after a tumultuous finish to his high school career but that's just how it goes.

As mentioned in the other thread, Leach rarely missed at Tech, so it's kind of crazy for us to be struggling now.

You forgot Cody Hodges, CML's 3rd 5th year Sr. in a row. They did fine that year. And after Harrell, 2009, with Rs Jr. Taylor Potts. Remember him?

I think we would/will be just fine with Tinsley.

 

[425cougfan]

Gordon and Tinsley graduate this year. Neville and Bledsoe will never start at WSU and everyone knows it. Cooper and Cruz are the two guys that we are waiting to see. Leach had no trouble playing Falk as a sophomore so this isn't about wanting an upperclassman starting.

For the comment about recruiting too many QB's, thanks for missing the point. I didn't say that we recruited too many QB's. I said the fact that all of our "project" QB's failed to impress is evidence that wasting scholarships on a guy "just in case" is a good waste to waste a hundred thousand dollars. I'm fine with taking a QB in every class. I just want to make sure we are going after good ones if we are going to do it.

I addressed in the other thread how this came about. If not for a late decommit and Bender becoming ineligible, I doubt they would have brought in Gordon or Tinsley. They were able to bring in Tinsley as a walk-on, in any case, and kept him there until their hand was forced. You have to have a decent QB room, both to manage risk and to be able to run practices, and they obviously needed someone to be a non-Dan Wagner-style backup in 2016 if Falk got hurt. So Leach is guilty of bringing on one project guy on scholarship (Gordon), out of necessity, and having him apparently not pan out. (Notably, it's not even that clear he hasn't panned out ... I've heard he's inconsistent and I wouldn't want to trust him as a starter, but it's not clear he's a bad backup QB, at minimum.) In any case, I have a hard time faulting Leach for using a scholarship to bring in someone like Gordon in that situation.

I also wouldn't have wanted us to be much thinner than we were last year pre-Minshew. Let's say things were different and Hilinski was still the presumptive starter, and did in fact start, and Gordon and Tinsley were your #2 and #3 guys while a true freshman, Cooper, redshirts and a redshirt freshman, Neville, isn't ready yet. What in the world is wrong with that picture? Not much. Same thing if you swap out Hilinski for Minshew. Now this year, both Tinsley and Gordon are still around ... for now. I suspect they may have a talk with one of those guys about playing time and whether they might be better-served exploring some options. Not how I'd draw it up, perhaps, but it's pretty reasonable how it came about and I don't think Leach did anything imprudent in his handling of the situation since the 2016 cycle.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Look who went full retard.

I'm not the one who's saying that we don't have any QB's because one committed suicide.

What's fascinating to me about the current situation is that everyone acts as if it's ok that we are scavenging for QB's because Hilinski passed away. Football is a contact sport and QB's get hurt and miss the season all the time. Utah knows this better than anyone. There's no way to pass our current situation off as some fluke that Leach could never have anticipated. That's why we take QB's in every class. We know that some aren't going to work out. It's just baffling that the last three guys that Leach brought in are such that we feel the need to go after grad transfer QB's two years in a row. Leach's track record suggests that this is an anomaly and that we are unlikely to end up in this situation again.

 

[fingerdisco]

I'm not the one who's saying that we don't have any QB's because one committed suicide.

What's fascinating to me about the current situation is that everyone acts as if it's ok that we are scavenging for QB's because Hilinski passed away. Football is a contact sport and QB's get hurt and miss the season all the time. Utah knows this better than anyone. There's no way to pass our current situation off as some fluke that Leach could never have anticipated. That's why we take QB's in every class. We know that some aren't going to work out. It's just baffling that the last three guys that Leach brought in are such that we feel the need to go after grad transfer QB's two years in a row. Leach's track record suggests that this is an anomaly and that we are unlikely to end up in this situation again.

Peterson has consistently recruited 4-star QBs to Poo-Dub, and yet he brought in Eason as a transfer. Is he a scavenger? Or maybe these coaches have a better idea of what it takes to get the right guy on the field then you do?

 

[kougkurt]

Peterson has consistently recruited 4-star QBs to Poo-Dub, and yet he brought in Eason as a transfer. Is he a scavenger? Or maybe these coaches have a better idea of what it takes to get the right guy on the field then you do?

Or is Petersen lack of 4 star depth at the QB position the reason he ran out Browning week after week. Year after Year. Regardless of the number of games the dogs won, it wasn’t because of Browning. He has highly rated QB’s on the sidelines not named Eason who will never see the playing field.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

Peterson has consistently recruited 4-star QBs to Poo-Dub, and yet he brought in Eason as a transfer. Is he a scavenger? Or maybe these coaches have a better idea of what it takes to get the right guy on the field then you do?

Yep and Eason is more than likely a one and done starter so he is the equivalent of grad transfer at this point and Pete did it. But if Leach does the same thing ( not sort of the same thing , but exactly the same thing) it is a bad strategy ?

 

[Ffffws]

Quicker road to GA

Minshew will be effective in the NFL as a strong backup and potential spot starter if he goes to the right system: backup at KC, AZ, ATL, NO, PHI, SEA, LA or LA.
If he gets drafted to be a 3rd string or backup where he can learn for a few years, he'll be good.

 

[Fab5Coug]

1859 yards and a 1-3 record....but who's counting?

Leach had plenty of QB's at Tech who took over the starting job without having a lot of game experience. BJ Symons only had 500 yards in three seasons before he started as a Senior and set school records in 2003. He had 43 attempts in 2002. Sonny Cumbie had 62 attempts before he threw for over 4,700 yards in 2004. Now, they were more mature than Cooper would be this year but this is 100% about Leach not getting QB's he could depend on in 2016 and 2017. It's too bad because I would have liked to have seen Neville get a chance to redeem himself after a tumultuous finish to his high school career but that's just how it goes.

As mentioned in the other thread, Leach rarely missed at Tech, so it's kind of crazy for us to be struggling now.

Who says we're struggling? If Falk to Minshew's is "struggling", then I'm all in for struggling.

 

[ATACFD]

I'm not the one who's saying that we don't have any QB's because one committed suicide.

What's fascinating to me about the current situation is that everyone acts as if it's ok that we are scavenging for QB's because Hilinski passed away. Football is a contact sport and QB's get hurt and miss the season all the time. Utah knows this better than anyone. There's no way to pass our current situation off as some fluke that Leach could never have anticipated. That's why we take QB's in every class. We know that some aren't going to work out. It's just baffling that the last three guys that Leach brought in are such that we feel the need to go after grad transfer QB's two years in a row. Leach's track record suggests that this is an anomaly and that we are unlikely to end up in this situation again.

 

[CougEd]

Yep and Eason is more than likely a one and done starter so he is the equivalent of grad transfer at this point and Pete did it. But if Leach does the same thing ( not sort of the same thing , but exactly the same thing) it is a bad strategy ?

It's only a bad strategy when it doesn't work.

 

[CougEd]

Flat showing again his lack of playing team sport like football & digging his heels in again trying to defend his narrative.

Just like he did when he uttered that Leach was “taking too many linemen”. He hates that people bring that phrase up years later, but him being stubborn highlighting the narrative gives Air to the odd take.

Fromm QB at Georgia leads his team to National Title as a Frosh & the Georgia Staff brings in the #1 HS QB Justin Fields the next year. It’s how Recruiting works.

Not sure that is how recruiting works for everyone. I am not sure Flat would be making the argument he is if Neville, Tinsley or Gordon were close to the caliber of Fields. While Leach's approach the last two years because of the tragedy is a non conventional approach, it worked this past season. From the average eye there was nothing in Minshew's past that told you, me, or Flat he was going to lead the nation in passing.

If Tinsley, Cooper, Cruz or Gordon were ready not sure they would be bringing in double G if there was a dlineman they could bring in that spot.

 

[CougEd]

I really, really get a laugh out of this statement. That kind of idiotic dismissive statement (that's factually wrong) is the kind of fall back that you go to when you don't really have a point. I did play football and ran track in high school, not that it means anything for anyone to have played high school football and have any kind of opinion about what it means to be a D-1 athlete or coach. If you were the BMOC on your campus and some kind of a high school stud....good for you, but if you didn't play in the Pac-12, your opinion has the same validity as Jimmy Joe Nobody who didn't play ball at all. Ironically, you talk sh!t about not playing football but your head football coach didn't play football.....so does that mean he shouldn't be coaching?

My comment about recruiting QB's is that we hear talk about recruiting 2 QB's per class and what happens when you do that is you either get guys who aren't going to be good enough to play or they both end up somewhere else because they don't want to have to deal with another QB in their class :cough:: 2016 ::cough:.

On the too many offensive linemen front.........all those scholarships and jack sh!t for production from the vast majority of them. To some degree, our lot in life requires us to take a few more gambles than other schools, but there were years where we were giving scholarships to guys that we knew were unlikely to pan out but didn't have better options. In hindsight, I'd rather give an extra OL schollie out, but I'm still baffled when we give out six. Something's got to give and that giving has been on the DL some years.....leading us to depth issues there at times. It's a crazy tough job to be a head coach and that's why the good ones get the money they do. I don't think Leach is perfect but it's obvious that he's better than the average coach by a fair margin.

Why taking this many lineman works for Leach is they are on a one year trial membership. If they find out they don't have what it takes, they find a way that the player takes their talent to a different place. Price, Doba, Wulff all were stuck with their misses when it came to lineman, but Leach cycles them through.

 

[425cougfan]

Why taking this many lineman works for Leach is they are on a one year trial membership. If they find out they don't have what it takes, they find a way that the player takes their talent to a different place. Price, Doba, Wulff all were stuck with their misses when it came to lineman, but Leach cycles them through.

I understand why you're saying this -- Leach has had some OL transfer out, certainly, which has caused the large OL classes to work themselves out -- but (i) Leach also has let some players stick around and exhaust their eligibility, even when it seemed pretty clear that they weren't going to get on the field (see, e.g,. this Wulff recruit who Leach let stick around forever: https://wsucougars.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1198), which at least implies that he wasn't forcing these guys out but that some of them instead chose to transfer to pursue PT on their own volition; and (ii) I find it hard to believe those other coaches wouldn't have "the conversation" sometimes, unless the reason they didn't is because their numbers were crazy low and they felt somewhat compelled to stick with OL even if they knew the players would never see the field.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Well aren't you mature. And clearly of high intelligence.

FWIW, I disagree with Flat on probably 75% of what he posts. However, his opinions are thought out and maturely expressed, typically with some facts included. Worthy of either debate or non-reply rather than personal attacks.

The continued degradation of this site by name-calling, one-liner smart-ass cretins disgusts me. But keep it up and soon there will only be you and your little infantile pals left. Then you can feed on each other.

I tried to refrain, but honestly you deserved it, and it felt ooooooh so good.

 

[dgibbons]

Why taking this many lineman works for Leach is they are on a one year trial membership. If they find out they don't have what it takes, they find a way that the player takes their talent to a different place. Price, Doba, Wulff all were stuck with their misses when it came to lineman, but Leach cycles them through.

Wrong. Where you don’t want to be is the last 10 guys or so on the roster.

 

[dgibbons]

Yep and Eason is more than likely a one and done starter so he is the equivalent of grad transfer at this point and Pete did it. But if Leach does the same thing ( not sort of the same thing , but exactly the same thing) it is a bad strategy ?

I have doubt about that. The Seattle media is, let’s say, prone to hyperbole. uw loses a lot on offense for 2019. I’m not sure that Eason can carry the load. He’s not very mobile which could cause him some problems.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

I have doubt about that. The Seattle media is, let’s say, prone to hyperbole. uw loses a lot on offense for 2019. I’m not sure that Eason can carry the load. He’s not very mobile which could cause him some problems.

He definitely will have some rust to knock off. Very unusual to see a player basically sit out 2 consecutive seasons and come out guns blazing. My only point is if he is not a position to jump to the NFL after next season then he is a bust, because that will be the equivalent to the Senior year of his college career. That is the part that makes him equivalent to a rent a year Grad Transfer, whether the Huskies want to call it that or not.

 

[CougEd]

Because it's not true.

I stand corrected... how about this, the dead weight tends to leave opening up other spots more quickly?

2012 there were 7 recruits, 3 made it less than two years.

2013 there were 7 recruits, 4 made it through 4 years plus, 2 made it through 3 years, and one made it through signing day.

2014 there were three recruits. 1 made it through four years, 2 made it through less than one year.

2015 there were five recruits. 1 made it through four years, 2 made it through less than 2, 2 made it through less than one.

2016 6 recruits. 4 still on the roster means they have been around for 3 years, 2 were gone within 2 years.


So maybe I am jaded by 14/15/17 and they are distorting my numbers. It seems like he cycles through numbers instead of having them sit on the bench.