Glory Daze- USC football and UCLA basketball

[dgibbons]

Historically bad football and basketball in LA. This is an opportunity to climb a rung or two on the ladder. USC won't suck forever.

https://collegesportsmaven.io/tmg/c...ing-in-the-glory-daze-l2VFyRtLBUyFtj4IXmWf8g/

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

LA has become a $-hole. These once successful college programs in LA have followed suit.

 

[95coug]

Wow. The overwhelming sense of entitlement just flows from that article. Worse, it seems concerned that modern students are being robbed of the chance to develop the same sense of entitlement. Tragic.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

The author's perspective is realistic. You are the 2 home universities in a geographic area that is somewhere (depending upon how you define it, more or less) in the ballpark of 20-25 million. You have decent facilities and reasonable local history, with lots of local alums. You get tons of media attention and are a social media first choice for local HS athletes. Yet you have inept, bumbling athletic directors with epically disfunctional football and hoops programs. Maybe UCLA's hiring of Chip will help, but their historic basketball program has succumbed to dry rot. SC's hoops program was actually viewed as more relevant than the football program until a few weeks ago. Now both are looking shaky. Guerrero wasn't that good of a baseball player, so nobody can figure out why he still has his job, though the Chip hire may redeem him to some extent. Lynn Swann was a great player but is clearly over his head in his current job. I figure that we have 2-3 years before all 4 programs (fb & hoops at both schools) are back in credible hands. The rest of the league needs to make hay while the sun shines, because, as Chris Dufresne points out, this is a historic low in administration and coaching competence here.

 

[Cougatron]

It comes from a culture where too many stupid people have too much power around a program and meddle in trying to help it be “a success” when they actually have zero idea how to do it in a modern setting and do more damage then go rendering the culture unable to win.

We had the same issue with Walden hanging around WSU.

It can afflict any program big or small. The fact that it is happening to wealthy schools in Los Angeles just illustrates how it’s not about the money it’s about the philosophy of the program and the intelligence behind the structure and culture.

To give an example of how it can hurt a program i’ll cite how Walden hurt WSU.

Nepotism - Pushing for unqualified people (like Wulff)
Lack of Competition - juice box / participation entitlement
Relying on emotions instead of technique and strategy

Now look at UCLA/USC

Nepotism/Entitlement - players getting soft in that “LA life” while Alums hang around the program to “be cool” and take selfies.
Lack of Competition - More about what 5 star will get headlines instead of who works the hardest AND has the talent
Relying on emotions instead of technique / strategy in their case relying on physical talent instead of technique / strategy. Believing they “already made it” once they walk on campus.

Rich School / Poor School it doesn’t matter.

If you want a winning program you need a winning culture and that goes from the top down, from the alums to the players.

 

[425cougfan]

Unfortunately, I think there is a program in Washington that is taking significant steps toward filling the void left at the top by UCLA and USC. Not the one we'd prefer.

 

[Coug90]

Unfortunately, I think there is a program in Washington that is taking significant steps toward filling the void left at the top by UCLA and USC. Not the one we'd prefer.

Was thinking the same thing. They are loving and taking full advantage of the ineptness of the traditional conference powers right now.

 

[dgibbons]

Unfortunately, I think there is a program in Washington that is taking significant steps toward filling the void left at the top by UCLA and USC. Not the one we'd prefer.

It’s not like uw is in the same position as Clemson, ascending through the ACC with FSU and Miami struggling. Clemson has two natties. uw has a Heart of Dallas championship.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

UW has done some good recruiting in SoCal with SC & UCLA being down. And of course, they have done reasonably well against those teams since Lil Pete's arrival, and have done well in league play overall. So I think 425 is right about UW benefitting from UCLA and SC being inept. However, the level of benefit is nothing like Gib's example of Clemson in the ACC. The Cougs have also benefitted; we've done reasonably well against SC and UCLA, and in league. Where we have not benefitted to the degree one might expect is in SoCal recruiting. That takes a stable group of assistants covering the territory, and that has not been the case for us for the past couple of years. Mind you, I think that overall we've had a slight staff upgrade, so I'm not complaining. But recruiting in a specific territory is a long game, especially if it is not your home turf. You can only get the highly sought after kids from another area if you have a relatively stable recruiting presence there, unless you are so unique or have a family relationship connection or get so much attention that it draws in the kid without requiring that presence. In the Air Raid's case, that might work for receivers. Even with SC running the Air Raid, we will still get some good receivers from here due to reputation and uniqueness. But for other kids we will need stability. Oddly enough, I think the past 2 years have probably removed the Oregon money targets, and after this season nobody is going to want to work for their HC anyway. We may be looking at a year or two of relative staff stability, as well as continuing success on the field. Ergo, I expect better SoCal recruiting results over the next 2 years.

 

[dgibbons]

UW has done some good recruiting in SoCal with SC & UCLA being down. And of course, they have done reasonably well against those teams since Lil Pete's arrival, and have done well in league play overall. So I think 425 is right about UW benefitting from UCLA and SC being inept. However, the level of benefit is nothing like Gib's example of Clemson in the ACC. The Cougs have also benefitted; we've done reasonably well against SC and UCLA, and in league. Where we have not benefitted to the degree one might expect is in SoCal recruiting. That takes a stable group of assistants covering the territory, and that has not been the case for us for the past couple of years. Mind you, I think that overall we've had a slight staff upgrade, so I'm not complaining. But recruiting in a specific territory is a long game, especially if it is not your home turf. You can only get the highly sought after kids from another area if you have a relatively stable recruiting presence there, unless you are so unique or have a family relationship connection or get so much attention that it draws in the kid without requiring that presence. In the Air Raid's case, that might work for receivers. Even with SC running the Air Raid, we will still get some good receivers from here due to reputation and uniqueness. But for other kids we will need stability. Oddly enough, I think the past 2 years have probably removed the Oregon money targets, and after this season nobody is going to want to work for their HC anyway. We may be looking at a year or two of relative staff stability, as well as continuing success on the field. Ergo, I expect better SoCal recruiting results over the next 2 years.

IMO, SoCal recruiting has been good, with a step back in 2019. We'll see what happens going forward.

 

[425cougfan]

It’s not like uw is in the same position as Clemson, ascending through the ACC with FSU and Miami struggling. Clemson has two natties. uw has a Heart of Dallas championship.

Definitely not. I don't think UW ever becomes a dominant Clemson-style force. I'm speaking more of the medium term on the football field, as indicated by recruiting (where UW has been cleaning up in California at USC's and UCLA's expense), and in men's BB, where UW has ascended to the top of the conference quickly and all too easily. We've also benefited from the LA schools being down, but until we even play in a Pac-12 title game in football or get our recruiting ranking above 10th, and our basketball program gets off the mat, it's hard for me to say we've benefited that greatly from a vacuum at the top, per se.

I want to make sure this isn't taken in a manner I don't intend ... I'm not criticizing our football program or its recruiting, which have been amazing and solid given the circumstances, respectively. I'm just saying that few would say we're benefiting from a leadership / national-level status vacuum at the top of the conference in a manner like UW is.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

It’s not like uw is in the same position as Clemson, ascending through the ACC with FSU and Miami struggling. Clemson has two natties. uw has a Heart of Dallas championship.

This .

UW clearly fills the void of the USC drop off in winning the Pac12 , but nowhere even remotely close in becoming a National power or name. I really think their mentality in how they shrug off their abysmal bowl record says everything about how they will never be in the National conversation. Sure they played some good teams in the bowls but if they are ever going a have a seat at the national table they need to show up in those type games .

From what I have read from their fans on social media and their football boards which seem to be filled with stoners , they really do not even seem to care about their bowl record or their record in big games outside of the AC. If the subject ever comes up they quickly go to blaming everything on Browning or change the subject back to the AC.

 

[BSpike76]

This .

UW clearly fills the void of the USC drop off in winning the Pac12 , but nowhere even remotely close in becoming a National power or name. I really think their mentality in how they shrug off their abysmal bowl record says everything about how they will never be in the National conversation. Sure they played some good teams in the bowls but if they are ever going a have a seat at the national table they need to show up in those type games .

From what I have read from their fans on social media and their football boards which seem to be filled with stoners , they really do not even seem to care about their bowl record or their record in big games outside of the AC. If the subject ever comes up they quickly go to blaming everything on Browning or change the subject back to the AC.

I was just thinking how with the PAC 12 approaching group of 5 level of respect and performance, UW is becoming the new BSU with CP as the coach. Kind of ironic.

 

[95coug]

I was just thinking how with the PAC 12 approaching group of 5 level of respect and performance, UW is becoming the new BSU with CP as the coach. Kind of ironic.

This starts to connect the dots with what I see as the real concern.

I don't particularly care that USC and/or UCLA is down. Wouldn't really even mind if they both became the new perennial cellar dwellers. The bigger problem is that with the two of them struggling, and with Oregon's simultaneous return to mediocrity, the Pac-12 doesn't have a national presence. Those 3 schools have our largest national prominence - USC and UCLA based on history, and Oregon based on exposure bought & paid for - so when they're all struggling to reach .500 it damages the perception of the whole conference.

I think reality is that our best teams could hang with anyone but Alabama & Clemson, and our worst teams would not be at the bottom of the other conferences. But, with those 3 "name" programs down, it wouldn't matter much if we went 7-0 in our bowl games, the bulk of our perception is negative.

 

[wazzubruce]

T
He whole elite thing changes IF WSU had won the latest AC 'S and a big bowl game. It wouldn't have been that much of a stretch either. As for sc & ucla, keep on sucking!!