JDL suspended, Calvin leaving

[CougEd]

It was a huge step back in branding. Rolo is not established at all. WSU is trying to catch a rising star at its beginning. In his defense, he has signed 2 classes and coached 4 games. It’s a terrible way to start. He hasn't had much of a chance to show what he can do. That isn’t his fault. In WSU’s defense, there are only so many established coaches around. Not everyone is gonna get one. And if you don’t have big time facilities or aren't willing to spend the money, why would those guys choose your school?

If WSU wants respect they have to go out and take it. They have to win. Then win more. Then blow people out. Then win more. Then maybe. The respect WSU gets is commensurate with the investment the school has made in football over the past 100 years.

Do I know if Rolo will be successful ? No clue. He does seem resourceful on the recruiting trail and I love what he (better be careful as my editor is reading... what Richardson has done with Banker holding place cards )has done in the secondary .

I think the Dline in limited time have shown to be better despite mcdougal and kwete leaving Jackson is the real deal.

But who is “the brand”. Not sure they exist anymore . Chip Kelly? He has struggled . Leach? He was 3-6 in his last season and a roster full of holes . And I think Leach is a top 15 coach but he didn’t knock it out if the park in recruiting. He had an exceptional 13 class, a very good 12 class that carried the program .

So who is the brand you speak of? Not sure it exists out there .

Maybe Chun only can hire good coaches for the less revenue generating sports .But I think he is proving to be a good evaluator of the people he hires.

 

[425cougfan]

To keep things really simple, WSU never is going to create a "brand" as a football power that is enduring.

 

[Observer11]

To keep things really simple, WSU never is going to create a "brand" as a football power that is enduring.

Endearing but probably not enduring.

Basketball statistically has a better chance at endurance but there was an entire administration who didn’t acknowledge that sport.

 

[mikalalas]

Endearing but probably not enduring.

Basketball statistically has a better chance at endurance but there was an entire administration who didn’t acknowledge that sport.

Especially with Kyle Smith, at Top 30 in nation, best in all of WSU history recruiting ranking, 4 stars, ON PAPER wise. And with Smith's Wife, family being from Chelan, WA, in Eastern WA, and being COUG FANS, Smith will probably stay about 8 to 16 years, and be a little kinda, sorta like a Mark Few type, that stays at WSU a while, long enough to have success, and make WSU a ENDURING basketball school, provided Chun stays AD long enough, and Smith stays long enough, and another Kyle Smith type coach is hired to replace Kyle Smith in about 7 to 13 years from now, and provided that replacement is good, and provided Chun, WSU use Kyle Smith's success, to then upgrade WSU's brand, facilities, thru superior marketing, money, leadership, etc.

Its easily doable, possible, and might probably even semi probable.

 

[etowncoug]

Endearing but probably not enduring.

Basketball statistically has a better chance at endurance but there was an entire administration who didn’t acknowledge that sport.

There is always the possibility to build a lasting winner, it's just difficult. Boise St has a pretty good brand. Utah has one as well. It's about stacking winning seasons one top of one another. Demonstrating to recruits they can develop and win in your program. All Rolovich needs to so is to maintain the string of winning seasons for the next two years and any questions about his ability to keep things going will be answered on the trail. He'll have his guys in place at that point so the buy in should be there.

If we don't keep winning, a lot of the negative stereotypes start working against us. Look at how difficult it's been for Arizona and OSU on the trail as recruits buy what they are selling any longer. And the portal has the kids who do show promise hitting the exits at first opportunity.

Basketball is a better bet because we seem to have the right coach. So far his guys have stuck around and he landed the top class in school history in his first full off-season. You need to keep someone like that perfectly happy.

 

[425cougfan]

There is always the possibility to build a lasting winner, it's just difficult. Boise St has a pretty good brand. Utah has one as well. It's about stacking winning seasons one top of one another. Demonstrating to recruits they can develop and win in your program. All Rolovich needs to so is to maintain the string of winning seasons for the next two years and any questions about his ability to keep things going will be answered on the trail. He'll have his guys in place at that point so the buy in should be there.

If we don't keep winning, a lot of the negative stereotypes start working against us. Look at how difficult it's been for Arizona and OSU on the trail as recruits buy what they are selling any longer. And the portal has the kids who do show promise hitting the exits at first opportunity.

Basketball is a better bet because we seem to have the right coach. So far his guys have stuck around and he landed the top class in school history in his first full off-season. You need to keep someone like that perfectly happy.

Two quick comments on that --

Utah and Boise State are similar in that they made their names by winning a lot of games in a less challenging conference and, when in a big game against a power opponent, doing well by focusing on that contest. That was how Gonzaga did it as well, of course. (Yes, Utah has leveraged that by continuing to do well in the Pac-12 after an adjustment, but the genesis was establishment as a winning program in a lower conference and, as I get into below, the presence of one coach).

There are other examples. WSU isn't in that kind of situation.

When I referred to WSU building a brand, I meant in the sense Biggs was referring to it, where the identity of an athletic program is fundamentally changed due to massive institutional commitment, apart from being tied to one coach. That's not happening. I could write quite a bit more, but basically, anything approaching Knight-level commitment isn't realistic, and it's not clear that even massive investments like Boone made at Oklahoma State really are enough to hit that unrealistic standard Biggs articulated, which was ridiculous to even think WSU could approach. E.g., although they've really punched above their weight for a long time now and are viewed as a solid football school, I don't think anyone is calling OK State a national power, even with investments many multiples higher than what WSU could ever do. Even if one quibbles with that example and thinks OK State has changed its brand, that's great, but that kind of investment is never happening at WSU unless a sports-crazed WSU alum commercializes fusion or something. Biggs said only three Pac-12 schools have good enough facilities to get 4-star players, implying WSU would need to do much, much more, near the top of the conference in facilities (or at it), to create that new brand. Never happening and I don't think it would have that effect in Pullman anyway.

Otherwise, a lot of situations where schools are perceived to have changed their fortunes massively are largely tied to one coach. Beamer at Va. Tech, Snyder at Kansas State, Gundy at Oklahoma State, etc. If you extend it to a couple of good coaches, it gets even more inclusive ... then you can look at Utah with Urban and Whittingham, etc. The point is that it's still fragile once the coach is gone. E.g., Kansas State, while not a doormat, isn't a national power or anything close. It's just not a bad football school.

 

[mikalalas]

There is always the possibility to build a lasting winner, it's just difficult. Boise St has a pretty good brand. Utah has one as well. It's about stacking winning seasons one top of one another. Demonstrating to recruits they can develop and win in your program. All Rolovich needs to so is to maintain the string of winning seasons for the next two years and any questions about his ability to keep things going will be answered on the trail. He'll have his guys in place at that point so the buy in should be there.

If we don't keep winning, a lot of the negative stereotypes start working against us. Look at how difficult it's been for Arizona and OSU on the trail as recruits buy what they are selling any longer. And the portal has the kids who do show promise hitting the exits at first opportunity.

Basketball is a better bet because we seem to have the right coach. So far his guys have stuck around and he landed the top class in school history in his first full off-season. You need to keep someone like that perfectly happy.

Doesnt hurt, and only helps that 1. Smith's Wife's family lives in, has lived in, is from Chelan, Eastern WA, and are WSU COUG FANS. 2. Chun is a good AD. 3. Has the Top class in school history. 3. Will probably continue to recruit well. 4. Will probably goto CBI/NIT this year/have winning season, finish 6,7,8 in Pac 12. 5. Will probably either go DEEP in NIT next year, or goto NCAA Tourny next year. 6. Will probably goto the 2nd round or sweet 16 of NCAA Tourney the year after that when Noah Williams is a Senior, and team is FULL of Seniors, Juniors, that returning starters. 7. Is paid comparatively ok. 8. His assistants are paid ok. 9. He Smith has a high quality of life, etc, in Pullman. 10. Smith can turn WSU into a Gonzaga under Monson/Few type. 11. Smith can turn into a Mark Few type. 12. Smith has a LOT of fans, friends, family, support in the area. 13. Smith has a more forgiving job. He can have a bad year and not be fired for it.(Not that he would have a bad year at WSU)(He probably wont have a bad year at WSU). 14. If Smith has even 1 bad year at a Kentucky type college, he could easily get fired by a Kentucky type. 15. Smith has AWESOME JOB SECURITY, BENEFITS at WSU.

Considering all of the above combined, I dont see how Smith doesnt at least stay at WSU for at least 5 to 10 years at MINIMUM.

Smith is not a Bennet type that would leave WSU after only 2,3,4 years.

Heck, even Sampson stayed at WSU a LONG time before leaving WSU.

I just dont see Smith leaving WSU after only 2,3,4 seasons.

Smith is probably going to stay at WSU for a semi long while, 4,5,6,7 years at minimum.

Yeah a Kentucky type could throw BIG MONEY at Smith, to try to lure Smith away, but if that is done within the first 3,4,5 years, I dont see him saying yes to that.

Now if Smith is offered BIG MONEY by a Kentucky type in year 5,6,7,8, then I could maybe see Smith maybe saying yes to that, and maybe leaving WSU at that point.

But I think Smith stays 6 to 17 years at WSU.

 

[CougPatrol]

I think Chip Kelly is on the verge of building a good program at UCLA.

 

[chugspig]

Fwiw, I don’t think any of things that have happened are necessarily awful respectively. I don’t care Calvin is leaving, I understand young guys getting MIPS, and to some extent DUI even, as unforgivable as those are. The thing that pisses me off is the way the program is always in the news for shitty things, rather than the good. The kassidy woods situation, guys leaving in bunches, dui/mip, suspensions. Meanwhile the staff spent most of the last year advertising for and supporting local businesses whole heartedly. They support their athletic counterparts to a high degree. The nutritionist who lost her husband recently, woke up to a card from every football player and coach today. But all we hear about is the bad. It just gets old.

 

[spongeandshoot]

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I think Chip Kelly is on the verge of building a good program at UCLA.

That will be interesting, Patrol. Chip clearly has been there and done that, so you can't say that he doesn't know what he is doing. He also clearly is a step slower than he was in the old days...natural at this point in his career. He can talk the talk. And he is a home school in the prime recruiting region in the PAC. All of that suggests you are right.

On the other hand, it is very, very hard to overcome the culture at UCLA. They are not anti-football, like Cal. But they are certainly "football is a low priority" unless you are talking about the SC game. For that single game, they get motivated. I've also got to add that they are like everyone else, they hate Oregon, but that is not as big a secondary rivalry as Stanford. It is just about as difficult to get admitted to UCLA as it is Stanford, and if there is a campus in the conference other than Cal that feels a student rivalry there, it is UCLA. Having said all that, there has not been a football coach since Bob Toledo that was able to motivate the kids to work hard all year, and the godfather of UCLA football, Donahue, had to work like heck to get a full season of work out of the guys. Back when their weight training facility was new (mid-Toledo years) I was on campus quite a bit for 4-5 years. I was always amazed at how few players were in the facility. Of course, I was there on weekdays, but it could be any time from about 10 am to 3 pm, year around. I'd guess that most facilities in the PAC had more activity than UCLA's. I am told that it has not changed substantially. Maybe the kids feel that since they are so heavily tilted to 4 stars, they don't have to work as hard? I've heard people posit that it is the intense academic atmosphere...but if that were true, Stanford would have trouble getting kids to work in the off season, and I have it on good authority that is not the case.

Long story short, I don't rule out Chip eventually getting the program turned around, but I would not bet on it without some pretty good odds. Lots of institutional hurdles there, and it has defeated a string of pretty good coaches (all but Dorrell since Donahue have been pretty good coaches, though they did not fit UCLA well). Slick Rick actually appeared to me to come closest to fitting the job description, but he got brought down by other things. It will be interesting to see what happens at UCLA. I'm guessing Chip keeps them in the #3-#6 slot in the PAC, mostly on the strength of good recruiting classes and solid X's and O's. They are unlikely to become a power.

 

[fingerdisco]

That will be interesting, Patrol. Chip clearly has been there and done that, so you can't say that he doesn't know what he is doing. He also clearly is a step slower than he was in the old days...natural at this point in his career. He can talk the talk. And he is a home school in the prime recruiting region in the PAC. All of that suggests you are right.

On the other hand, it is very, very hard to overcome the culture at UCLA. They are not anti-football, like Cal. But they are certainly "football is a low priority" unless you are talking about the SC game. For that single game, they get motivated. I've also got to add that they are like everyone else, they hate Oregon, but that is not as big a secondary rivalry as Stanford. It is just about as difficult to get admitted to UCLA as it is Stanford, and if there is a campus in the conference other than Cal that feels a student rivalry there, it is UCLA. Having said all that, there has not been a football coach since Bob Toledo that was able to motivate the kids to work hard all year, and the godfather of UCLA football, Donahue, had to work like heck to get a full season of work out of the guys. Back when their weight training facility was new (mid-Toledo years) I was on campus quite a bit for 4-5 years. I was always amazed at how few players were in the facility. Of course, I was there on weekdays, but it could be any time from about 10 am to 3 pm, year around. I'd guess that most facilities in the PAC had more activity than UCLA's. I am told that it has not changed substantially. Maybe the kids feel that since they are so heavily tilted to 4 stars, they don't have to work as hard? I've heard people posit that it is the intense academic atmosphere...but if that were true, Stanford would have trouble getting kids to work in the off season, and I have it on good authority that is not the case.

Long story short, I don't rule out Chip eventually getting the program turned around, but I would not bet on it without some pretty good odds. Lots of institutional hurdles there, and it has defeated a string of pretty good coaches (all but Dorrell since Donahue have been pretty good coaches, though they did not fit UCLA well). Slick Rick actually appeared to me to come closest to fitting the job description, but he got brought down by other things. It will be interesting to see what happens at UCLA. I'm guessing Chip keeps them in the #3-#6 slot in the PAC, mostly on the strength of good recruiting classes and solid X's and O's. They are unlikely to become a power.

Don’t forget that The Chipster was cheating like hell in buying players—he’s probably being forced to walk the straight and narrow, which may hamper his ability to get back to the success he bought at OR.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Don’t forget that The Chipster was cheating like hell in buying players—he’s probably being forced to walk the straight and narrow, which may hamper his ability to get back to the success he bought at OR.

And his offense was a novelty at the time. Now everyone runs something similar so defenses have adapted to it along with substitution rule changes taking away some of its advantages.

 

[BiggsCoug]

That will be interesting, Patrol. Chip clearly has been there and done that, so you can't say that he doesn't know what he is doing. He also clearly is a step slower than he was in the old days...natural at this point in his career. He can talk the talk. And he is a home school in the prime recruiting region in the PAC. All of that suggests you are right.

On the other hand, it is very, very hard to overcome the culture at UCLA. They are not anti-football, like Cal. But they are certainly "football is a low priority" unless you are talking about the SC game. For that single game, they get motivated. I've also got to add that they are like everyone else, they hate Oregon, but that is not as big a secondary rivalry as Stanford. It is just about as difficult to get admitted to UCLA as it is Stanford, and if there is a campus in the conference other than Cal that feels a student rivalry there, it is UCLA. Having said all that, there has not been a football coach since Bob Toledo that was able to motivate the kids to work hard all year, and the godfather of UCLA football, Donahue, had to work like heck to get a full season of work out of the guys. Back when their weight training facility was new (mid-Toledo years) I was on campus quite a bit for 4-5 years. I was always amazed at how few players were in the facility. Of course, I was there on weekdays, but it could be any time from about 10 am to 3 pm, year around. I'd guess that most facilities in the PAC had more activity than UCLA's. I am told that it has not changed substantially. Maybe the kids feel that since they are so heavily tilted to 4 stars, they don't have to work as hard? I've heard people posit that it is the intense academic atmosphere...but if that were true, Stanford would have trouble getting kids to work in the off season, and I have it on good authority that is not the case.

Long story short, I don't rule out Chip eventually getting the program turned around, but I would not bet on it without some pretty good odds. Lots of institutional hurdles there, and it has defeated a string of pretty good coaches (all but Dorrell since Donahue have been pretty good coaches, though they did not fit UCLA well). Slick Rick actually appeared to me to come closest to fitting the job description, but he got brought down by other things. It will be interesting to see what happens at UCLA. I'm guessing Chip keeps them in the #3-#6 slot in the PAC, mostly on the strength of good recruiting classes and solid X's and O's. They are unlikely to become a power.

UCLA will go as fas as the admin wants it to. So not very far.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Don’t forget that The Chipster was cheating like hell in buying players—he’s probably being forced to walk the straight and narrow, which may hamper his ability to get back to the success he bought at OR.

Nah. Unless you saw it or he got caught personally, it didn't happen. College coaches don't cheat, they're just good or they're not.

 

[Coug90]

Don’t forget that The Chipster was cheating like hell in buying players—he’s probably being forced to walk the straight and narrow, which may hamper his ability to get back to the success he bought at OR.

IMO he’s well on his way. I agree that Oregon was a dirty program when he was there but things are looking up at UCLA- I’d say the Bruins along with ASU should be the early favorites in the South next year. As long as Heltons at SC and their leadership continues to be a mess, Chip should be able to capitalize on the recruiting trail as well.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

I think Chip Kelly is on the verge of building a good program at UCLA.

I think they win the South next season...

 

[CougSinceBirth]

I'd also argue UCLA has the largest rising brand in the conference and for my two cents, the top AD.

 

[CougEd]

Sponge hates Leach & had zero faith from the Jump in Provo.

(Documented here of all places)

He’s pushed all his chips into the Rolo Era.

(Documented here again of all places)

Cougatron has it all on record.

I’m already enjoying the show.

Chris the A and M fan and defender of all that is good. Not sure what pushing all your chips in means , but if that means they hope he is successful . Then I would hope we all have done that.

But I do wish he got hammered and said he didn’t think rolo wasn’t going to get it done after the first game so you would see “equality”.

You have to get this whole hate leach thing out of your system . Leach was needed at the time. He did a very good job .

I personally wish Dona left after 2008 . It would have shown the talent drain more effectively . And maybe we would have hired a coach like leach to clean things up . Or Price .

But then again we couldn’t afford Leach in 9 and 10. So maybe we should have hired Price.

 

[FnuLnu]

But who is “the brand”. Not sure they exist anymore . Chip Kelly? He has struggled . Leach? He was 3-6 in his last season and a roster full of holes . And I think Leach is a top 15 coach but he didn’t knock it out if the park in recruiting. He had an exceptional 13 class, a very good 12 class that carried the program .

So who is the brand you speak of? Not sure it exists out there .

The brand still exists out there. Just need a vaccinated Jim Walden on the next coach's search when Rolo gets cancelled.

 

[etowncoug]

Not sure who has seen this but Calvin mentioned to Brand X nothing but love for how the coaches handled themselves on the field but said he was leaving due to not seeing eye to eye with them off the field. Said everything wasn't flowing. Mentioned not talking with the coaches before making his decision to hit the portal (consistent theme with coaches, not including the coaches on their process: Abe Lucas and Borghi didn't talk with Rolo about their NFL prospects).

This fits the rumblings I've been hearing for a year. Something is off in the locker room.

 

[chugspig]

Not sure who has seen this but Calvin mentioned to Brand X nothing but love for how the coaches handled themselves on the field but said he was leaving due to not seeing eye to eye with them off the field. Said everything wasn't flowing. Mentioned not talking with the coaches before making his decision to hit the portal (consistent theme with coaches, not including the coaches on their process: Abe Lucas and Borghi didn't talk with Rolo about their NFL prospects).

This fits the rumblings I've been hearing for a year. Something is off in the locker room.

The honest impression I am getting is that Rolo and staff are not playing favorites with the guys who thought they were favorites. I know it sounds weird to say Leach had favorites because he insisted on constant competition and said “whoever is the best plays”, but I think even Leach had a group of guys who were kind of the “in group”. Rolo isn’t following that trend, and in my opinion is doing a good thing showing the team that it’s his now. Everything I’ve heard from inside the locker room is Rolo is caring and interested in players and their progress/well being. So I’m still on board with the new culture is hitting some guys too hard and others are seeing their chances are very minimal.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The honest impression I am getting is that Rolo and staff are not playing favorites with the guys who thought they were favorites. I know it sounds weird to say Leach had favorites because he insisted on constant competition and said “whoever is the best plays”, but I think even Leach had a group of guys who were kind of the “in group”. Rolo isn’t following that trend, and in my opinion is doing a good thing showing the team that it’s his now. Everything I’ve heard from inside the locker room is Rolo is caring and interested in players and their progress/well being. So I’m still on board with the new culture is hitting some guys too hard and others are seeing their chances are very minimal.

Maybe, but taking Calvin at his word, I'm not sure what that would have to do about 'off the field".

If I were going to take a guess, I'd have to say that Rolo is telling his kids that they can protest/ march/ demand money somewhere other than the WSU campus, and that their focus is football. This would tie into the KW drama as well, and the "players united' fiasco too. That is the only thing I can imagine could be "off the field" that would or could cause contention in the locker room.

If that happens to be the case, it puts Rolo in a tough spot, because he has to choose between doing his job (actually trying to win football games) and being sympathetic to something that probably feels very important to a lot of these kids. You can't have kids constantly distracted and win football games; I don't recall hearing about or seeing a bunch of BLM hoopla from the Bama camp, and I suspect that Saban suffers none of it.

Again, all speculation on my part.

**edit - BX was mentioned above, and its been so long since I'd been there it took me a minute to remember the actual site name! Also, the free board there is dead, I'm not sure why they even maintain it tbh.

 

[chugspig]

Maybe, but taking Calvin at his word, I'm not sure what that would have to do about 'off the field".

If I were going to take a guess, I'd have to say that Rolo is telling his kids that they can protest/ march/ demand money somewhere other than the WSU campus, and that their focus is football. This would tie into the KW drama as well, and the "players united' fiasco too. That is the only thing I can imagine could be "off the field" that would or could cause contention in the locker room.

If that happens to be the case, it puts Rolo in a tough spot, because he has to choose between doing his job (actually trying to win football games) and being sympathetic to something that probably feels very important to a lot of these kids. You can't have kids constantly distracted and win football games; I don't recall hearing about or seeing a bunch of BLM hoopla from the Bama camp, and I suspect that Saban suffers none of it.

Again, all speculation on my part.

**edit - BX was mentioned above, and its been so long since I'd been there it took me a minute to remember the actual site name! Also, the free board there is dead, I'm not sure why they even maintain it tbh.

Would not surprise me. I think there are two groups of people leaving: I’m not getting/going to get playing time guys, and I don’t like the coaches attitude/feelings/rules+I’m not getting my share of playing time(some hybrid of both).

 

[FnuLnu]

Endearing but probably not enduring.

Basketball statistically has a better chance at endurance but there was an entire administration who didn’t acknowledge that sport.

Smith era is an aestethic and roster management success, can't say it is a financial success even preCOVID.

They drew 1,200 fans in Spokane vs New Mexico State (a NCAA tourney team) and averaged just 2,500 in Pullman in the nonKlay games. When fans return, not sure the Mike Wurm jersey retirement ceremony will draw that much (although it should).

Len Stevens gets hired because he was a cheap assistant and only an assistant because his St Martin's team caught Raveling on a bad night.

Ken Bone gets a 7 year contract at pay higher than the WSU football coach because his Portland State team caught the Zags on a bad night.

Statistically WSU men's basketball needs a Lynn Nance to show up at Montlake every 25 years to climb from #3 D1 team to #2 DI team in the state.

They will need Smith's successor to be able to work cheap

 

[kougkurt]

Official

 

[BiggsCoug]

Official

View embedded media

And now WSU is where 4 star players go to transfer.

 

[kougkurt]

And now WSU is where 4 star players go to transfer.

2,3 and sometimes 4

 

[cr8zyncalif]

2,3 and sometimes 4

And sometimes 6 but not more than 9.

 

[spongeworthy12]

And sometimes 6 but not more than 9.

Or is it 6, 7, 8, Pi, and sometimes 9?

 

[dgibbons]

Official

View embedded media

Glad he has finished his degree.

 

[SDCoug]

Glad he has finished his degree.

I really like that kid. I expect that he will be successful in life, regardless of where he ends up.

 

[mikalalas]

About 100 Receptions, 1000 yards, 5 TD's, platooning at slot in past, injured, etc, LOST.

About more likely 73 receptions, 700 more likely yards, 7 more likely TD's, (This Season(If Stayed), LOST.

About likely 170 likely total career Receptions over WSU career(If stayed), LOST

About likely 1750 likely total career yards over WSU career(if stayed), LOST

About likely 13 likely total career TD's over WSU Career(if stayed), LOST

But yet LOSING THAT, thats no big deal, wont have a big negative impact on Rolo's/WSU's Run and Shoot Offense, at least according to some posters here.

 

[Coug90]

About 100 Receptions, 1000 yards, 5 TD's, platooning at slot in past, injured, etc, LOST.

About more likely 73 receptions, 700 more likely yards, 7 more likely TD's, (This Season(If Stayed), LOST.

About likely 170 likely total career Receptions over WSU career(If stayed), LOST

About likely 1750 likely total career yards over WSU career(if stayed), LOST

About likely 13 likely total career TD's over WSU Career(if stayed), LOST

But yet LOSING THAT, thats no big deal, wont have a big negative impact on Rolo's/WSU's Run and Shoot Offense, at least according to some posters here.

So 7+5 is 12. And 700+1000 is 1,700. Also how do we lose yards and TDs he already gained and scored?

 

[CougEd]

The brand still exists out there. Just need a vaccinated Jim Walden on the next coach's search when Rolo gets cancelled.

I always appreciate the perspective that a guy on a committee has more weight than the AD, the future AD and the prez.

 

[CougEd]

Not sure who has seen this but Calvin mentioned to Brand X nothing but love for how the coaches handled themselves on the field but said he was leaving due to not seeing eye to eye with them off the field. Said everything wasn't flowing. Mentioned not talking with the coaches before making his decision to hit the portal (consistent theme with coaches, not including the coaches on their process: Abe Lucas and Borghi didn't talk with Rolo about their NFL prospects).

This fits the rumblings I've been hearing for a year. Something is off in the locker room.

Well what are the rumblings . Are they same type of rumblings when leach took over for wulff ?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Price had 2x consecutive 10-winners, not 3x. Doba was coach for 2003. Remember? Other thoughts:

1. CML has a better W/L record than Price despite playing with a 2-year-handicap rebuilding after the worst coach in program history. If he took over for a mediocre coach like Price did, he'd have cleared 0.600 easy.
2. Head to head, CML has the best 1-year stretch (11 wins), is tied for best 2-year stretch (20 wins), has the best 3-year stretch (28), best 4-year (37), best 5-year (43), best 6-year (46), best 7-year (52) and best 8-year (55). Most aren't close: in fact, CML's best record in any given stretch of years is 20% (!) better than CMP's.
3. CML took us to as many bowls as CMP in about half the time. Some of that can be explained by growing bowl invite lists, but not enough to explain Leach's 2x success rate.
4. Rose Bowls are great; less so when you lose both, and get smoked in the 2nd one.
5. It's a real downer to think about what would have been with Cracraft & Marquess Wilson had they not been all or mostly wasted in that transition

CML was phoning it in at the end and probably will for the rest of time, so it was time for him to go. But that doesn't stop me being grateful for an historic ride.

Spin it however you want, but 2001-03 was the best three year stretch in school history and it isn't close. The 2002 team (with a healthy Gesser) would have wiped the field with any Leach led WSU team and it likely wouldn't have been close. Price may have gone in 2003.....but he was directly responsible for that stretch of football.

I enjoyed the hell out of the 2018 season, but that 11-2 record is about as legit as all those 11 win Boise State seasons we used to bag on. We lost to the only true Top 25 team on our schedule and to a USC team that finished with a losing record. It was a a fun season, but Price had four teams that were likely better than that team.

When talking about the state of the program when they took over, I was on campus in 1989 and Erickson left Price with an absolute sh!tshow when it came to the character of the players on the team at that time. There were a lot of good guys, but that was clearly the MCMW (more criminals more wins) method of recruiting before Price. He had to gut the team to get rid of the cancers and start over from scratch in 1990.

When talking about bowl wins, it's important to remember that WSU went 2-4 in bowl games under Leach including a loss to an MWC team and an absolute ass-kicking at the hands of a 9-3 Michigan State team that wasn't highly regarded heading into the game. Our Rose Bowl losses were to the national champions in 1997 and a 12-2 OU team that finished #5 in the country. There is nothing to suggest that Leach wouldn't have gotten beaten badly in those games......if he had even been able to get us there.

I respect Mike Leach and would have been happy to keep him, but he's never won a conference title in close to 20 years of coaching, despite being given plenty of time to do so.....something Mike Price did twice while defeating Top Five opponents in our own conference along the way. If Mike Price and Rien Long had stayed in 2003, another Rose Bowl run just might have happened.

Leach had unhappy players throughout his tenure and it's something that's just part of the business right now for players to leave. It's dumb to judge Rolovich right now. It took Leach five years to have his first legitimately good team. Maybe we give Rolovich more than 1/2 of a season before we proclaim him a lost cause.

 

[mikalalas]

Spin it however you want, but 2001-03 was the best three year stretch in school history and it isn't close. The 2002 team (with a healthy Gesser) would have wiped the field with any Leach led WSU team and it likely wouldn't have been close. Price may have gone in 2003.....but he was directly responsible for that stretch of football.

I enjoyed the hell out of the 2018 season, but that 11-2 record is about as legit as all those 11 win Boise State seasons we used to bag on. We lost to the only true Top 25 team on our schedule and to a USC team that finished with a losing record. It was a a fun season, but Price had four teams that were likely better than that team.

When talking about the state of the program when they took over, I was on campus in 1989 and Erickson left Price with an absolute sh!tshow when it came to the character of the players on the team at that time. There were a lot of good guys, but that was clearly the MCMW (more criminals more wins) method of recruiting before Price. He had to gut the team to get rid of the cancers and start over from scratch in 1990.

When talking about bowl wins, it's important to remember that WSU went 2-4 in bowl games under Leach including a loss to an MWC team and an absolute ass-kicking at the hands of a 9-3 Michigan State team that wasn't highly regarded heading into the game. Our Rose Bowl losses were to the national champions in 1997 and a 12-2 OU team that finished #5 in the country. There is nothing to suggest that Leach wouldn't have gotten beaten badly in those games......if he had even been able to get us there.

I respect Mike Leach and would have been happy to keep him, but he's never won a conference title in close to 20 years of coaching, despite being given plenty of time to do so.....something Mike Price did twice while defeating Top Five opponents in our own conference along the way. If Mike Price and Rien Long had stayed in 2003, another Rose Bowl run just might have happened.

Leach had unhappy players throughout his tenure and it's something that's just part of the business right now for players to leave. It's dumb to judge Rolovich right now. It took Leach five years to have his first legitimately good team. Maybe we give Rolovich more than 1/2 of a season before we proclaim him a lost cause.

1. 2018 was a EQUIVALENT ASTERISK CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP, ROSEBOWL, NY6 BOWL EAQUIVALENT SEASON.

2. Thats because: IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR THE CHEATING, CROOKED, INCOMPETANT, SCANDALOUS, WRONGLY UNCALLED USC TARGETING PENALTY, WSU WOULD HAVE WON THAT GAME, SO THAT GAME IS, SHOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT OF A WIN.

3. The 1 and 1/2 ffoot, feet of snow, blizzard cup, that FAVORED UW's RUNNING GAME, and DESTROYED THE AIR RAID. While cant say WSU would have won, WSU losing was directly because of that blizzard, and eithout that blizzard WSU might, maybe, probabky even probably would, coukd, should have won. And because of that, that's the EQUIVALENT of at least a half a win.

4. Because of points above, WSU would have had a 11-1 record prebowl, would have gone to conference championship, and either the Rosebowl, Playoff, Cottonbowl, Fiestabowl, NY6 bowl, and not the Alamobowl.

5. So because of points above 2018 was a Rosebowl, Conference Championship esque, EQUIVALENT season.

6. Because of above. STOP saying that Leach didnt have a Rosebowl, Conference Championship season, when he did(EQUIVALENT) or would have IF NOT FOR THE EPIC BULLSHET CRAP, SNUB, etc, that would have caused PRICE, SABAN, ANY WOULD BE WSU coach to have the same result as Leach.

7. You, others saying that Leach either didnt have a Rosebowl, Conference Championship, or at least a ASTERISK ROSEBOWL, CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP EQUIVALENCE IS EXTREMELY UNFAIR TO LEACH, MINSHEW, THE 2018 TEAM.

So STOP.

8. No one is saying what your saying everyone is saying about Rolo.

There is legit cause for a WEE LITTLE TINY BIT OF CONCERN.

And thats what people have, and are saying, expressing their wee little tiny bit of concern

 

[Flatlandcoug]

1. 2018 was a EQUIVALENT ASTERISK CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP, ROSEBOWL, NY6 BOWL EAQUIVALENT SEASON.

2. Thats because: IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR THE CHEATING, CROOKED, INCOMPETANT, SCANDALOUS, WRONGLY UNCALLED USC TARGETING PENALTY, WSU WOULD HAVE WON THAT GAME, SO THAT GAME IS, SHOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT OF A WIN.

3. The 1 and 1/2 ffoot, feet of snow, blizzard cup, that FAVORED UW's RUNNING GAME, and DESTROYED THE AIR RAID. While cant say WSU would have won, WSU losing was directly because of that blizzard, and eithout that blizzard WSU might, maybe, probabky even probably would, coukd, should have won. And because of that, that's the EQUIVALENT of at least a half a win.

4. Because of points above, WSU would have had a 11-1 record prebowl, would have gone to conference championship, and either the Rosebowl, Playoff, Cottonbowl, Fiestabowl, NY6 bowl, and not the Alamobowl.

5. So because of points above 2018 was a Rosebowl, Conference Championship esque, EQUIVALENT season.

6. Because of above. STOP saying that Leach didnt have a Rosebowl, Conference Championship season, when he did(EQUIVALENT) or would have IF NOT FOR THE EPIC BULLSHET CRAP, SNUB, etc, that would have caused PRICE, SABAN, ANY WOULD BE WSU coach to have the same result as Leach.

7. You, others saying that Leach either didnt have a Rosebowl, Conference Championship, or at least a ASTERISK ROSEBOWL, CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP EQUIVALENCE IS EXTREMELY UNFAIR TO LEACH, MINSHEW, THE 2018 TEAM.

So STOP.

8. No one is saying what your saying everyone is saying about Rolo.

There is legit cause for a WEE LITTLE TINY BIT OF CONCERN.

And thats what people have, and are saying, expressing their wee little tiny bit of concern

2018 was not equivalent to an NY6 bowl equivalent season. If anyone outside the conference really respected us, we would have been invited to the Fiesta Bowl. They took 9-3 LSU instead. You can play woulda, coulda, shoulda about the Apple Cup....but we frickin' lost the game. We were one play away from beating Michigan in the 1997 Rose Bowl, does that mean it was basically a national championship season? The answer is no.

To be fair, the 2018 team could only play the teams that were on the schedule and it's not their fault that Stanford, Oregon and Utah all turned out to be ok...but not great teams. It's not their fault that USC didn't realize that they sucked until after they played us. Wyoming was supposed to be decent and they weren't. According to Massey, we faced the #54 schedule in 2018. For perspective, our 2002 schedule was #13 in the country and we were 10-2 heading into the Rose Bowl (with a banged up QB at that point). Our 1997 schedule was also ranked #13 by Massey. 2001 is the closest comparison with the 2018 season. Massey had our schedule ranked #48 and we played crap for non-conference that year. Oregon and UW were the only two good teams on that schedule and we lost to them.

The 1997 team faced off against seven teams that Massey ranked in the Top 25. The 2002 squad faced the #1 (Ohio State), #2 (USC) and #3 (Oklahoma) ranked teams according to Massey. If not for Gesser's leg injury, we beat the mutts that year (and maybe not get killed by OU). I can't even imagine the pain that the Palouse Posse (1994) would have laid on Minshew. It would have been a close game between the 1994 team and 2018 team if only because Chad Davis sucked donkey balls.....but I'd bet on that 1994 team in a heartbeat.

Take your ALL CAPS, woulda, coulda, shouldas and excuses and just accept the fact that the 2018 squad was fun to watch.....but not a championship caliber team. I enjoyed the hell out of that season, but the 1994, 1997, 2002 and 2003 teams would have all thumped that 2018 squad. Leach is a great program builder but he is not a builder of championship teams. 20 years of evidence says that its unlikely to happen at MSU.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

"Leach is a great program builder but he is not a builder of championship teams. 20 years of evidence says that its unlikely to happen at MSU."

Flat, there is no question that your statement is factually correct. Someone who wanted to say, "but this time it is different" could cite some advantages that MSU has, starting with easier access to closer recruiting. But if they wished to do that, they should also admit that any advantages that MSU has are at least offset (if not more than offset) by the more dominant members of their conference. So...long story short...this time it is highly unlikely to be different.