Leach detractors- have you seen IT?
- Thread starter wulffui
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oh, so if someone got a lick that ended his season it was a good move to keep him in?
You mean Sam Flor...who committed to WSU in September of 2011 under Wulff? Flor was a RS Soph. Freeman is our RS Fresh, Sorenson a True Soph. Flor had been here since 2011. He was the oldest/most experienced.
As a side note Sorenson who started 10 games for us at center was out Arizona and brought in versus USC. I think he could have started USC but sort of had an injury which is why he was out against Arizona. He then started the final 3 games after USC.
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While I don't agree with Sponges tactics, his argument is spot on. We haven't had a winning season for 11 years and counting. And we have two 9 loss seasons.
Yes, don't buy his spin, my spin or anyone else's spin. But, please back it up with something other than calling someone a geek or that a player would laugh at him. Teams and players do use advanced statistics. It was not the case years ago, but it is very true today.
Yes, I have said on many occasions that you are what your record says you are. It is true. There is also something called a sample size. Cherry picking two years out of three is not being truthful any more than if I chose 2013 for Leach and said Leach gets WSU to bowls, so all is perfect.
Well go cry to paul Wulff about it he's responsible for 4 of them and 2 11 loss seasons.
Well, if we're just doing the pure numbers thing, Mike Leach has been in a bowl 11 of his 13 years as a head coach, and more quickly at WSU than all coaches but Bill Doba. Paul Wulff? 0 for 4.
If there's one thing we've definitely learned from the Leach tenure, it's that Paul Wulff is no Spike Dykes.
Just so we're clear: now we're imagining Leach doing things as half-assed as Wulff and getting a Wulffian result (that never happened in Leach's reality)... why?
Our current coach isn't stupid like our former one. I don't know why you're so uncomfortable with that fact.
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Yeah and our current one is better so you should be extra happy about him if you loved the guy before.
3 full seasons of subpar performance to Walden and Price isn't enough of a sample size?????
hey, truth is... it may not be but... by year 4 we should start to see on field results similar to Walden and/or Price, shouldn't we?
hey, truth is... it may not be but... by year 4 we should start to see on field results similar to Walden and/or Price, shouldn't we?
I see your point, and it may be valid, however there are very very few HS players clearly ready to play a Major role as a freshman. Those who are tend to find themselves as 4 and 5 star kids. JC guys, while more physically mature, do not always immediately translate either. I think we have seen roster turnover pretty well over the past two seasons. This year will have a bit more, but I think most of that will show up as increased depth.
Subpar performance compared to the rest of the Pac 12, definitely. Subpar performance compared to what he inherited? Not even close. This team is light years ahead from what it was four years ago.
Mora, Graham and Rodriguez all inherited bowl ready teams from day one with very recent history of success, including the year they took over. Only one team was in the same boat as WSU when the current coach took over at his new team and that is Colorado's Mike MacIntyre who is 1-17 in conference in two years.
First, "love the guy"...I don't know the guy. Never met him. Can't say the same thing about other coaches. Not sure how many times I have to say this, but in 2010 Biggs and I texted several times how getting Leach would be a coup. and how we should fire Wulff after 2010 if we remotely had a chance at Leach. We didn't have the money, so it was a pipe dream.
When Leach was hired I was very excited to have him. I think he represents the university. I have said many times Leach gets five years before the seat gets warmed from me, if then.
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Light years based on experience? Talent? I am not saying they aren't, but how do you know? For example the DT's are better than Pole, Cooper, Laurenzi? How do you know the DB's are better than Buchanon, Carpenter, Locker, Horton, Simmons and Washington? The receivers? The QB's? The online has more bodies, not argument there. But in terms of talent, you may be right, but you haven't seen it on the field have you?
Nope. So if Tuel was sick, went in, took the hit and didn't get hurt it was the right move? Just want to make sure I understand that. I thought maybe it is about RISK, exposing the player to injury at a time in the game it didn't matter.
Idaho STATE. Also seems pretty clear to me that, yeah, you're just trying to wish parallels into existence where they aren't.
Unless you've found that sick QB Leach ran out to get destroyed in a blowout against a bad FCS team- you were insistent that you would. I'll wait.
Again, I just want to make sure I understand this to be correct. You would be totally fine with Tuel playing in the game if he did not get hurt.
The entire program as a whole is light years from where it was when Leach was hired. Yes, you can talk to me about the minutia of a few players that were better under Wulff as experienced players.
But, as far as attitude, coaching, players, , weight room, etc., this program is lightyears ahead.
Players are not minutia. Hard to judge attitude. But I'll buy that one. Coaching? There were some real holes last year. Sure, head coaching, I would agree. Weight room? We always hear how hard they work. "Hardest offseason program I have ever been in", and Mike Graise gained two pounds from start to finish. But I will buy that one as well. But not sure how you say players... I would say I hope the players are better, but we haven't seen them on the field. Take Nolan Washington, Buchanon, Horton, Simmons....they all had two years of tape on the field. Good bad, or indifferent, but we knew what they could and couldn't do. Not sure how we say players at this point are better.
I have seen Destiny now for three years, and he is an enigma. Makes a great play and disappears for 5. He hasn't been dominant, and he sure seems like he has the body to be dominate. Barber...have we seen anything from him? Has he really played? Not sure once we weren't bowl eligible that Barber wasn't taking snaps away from Cooper and Pole. No clue why Taylor T is still playing safety. While I think he can contribute, he is much better suited to play where Lemora will be playing. People talk about Dotson, and to date he is a band aid. It goes back to my original point. I hope they are better, but I haven't seen it yet. Not sure anyone can they have seen it.
Because when I watch them coming in from high school they are further ahead then the the ones we have on the roster were when they came in.
Go watch Tapa's hs tape and Cooper's. Tapa looks more impressive going up against better talent. But you won't waste his redshirt or take out cooper for that. The smart thing is to let cooper play and finish and when he leaves put in Tapa.
Even cooper said himself "the program is on the rise"
Halliday said himself "whoever takes over the offense is going to have the keys to a nice car"
Everybody knows the program is getting better and the talent is being upgraded.
Tron, wasn't talking about Tapa. The problem with "tape" is it lies. I could go back and look at the highlights and say look what he did here. Since you like history, go back to one of the best classes people say Mike Price signed on paper, maybe second to that of 1999. They had a bunch of really "good looking kids" and that never translated onto the field. Here is my only problem with the statement is Barber was Tapa like, Destiny had wheels to play linebacker at 290, and it hasn't clicked. As much as I appreciate Cooper and Pole and the work they put forth, it would have helped the program to get Barber and Tapa way more snaps.
"The tapes lie, the recruiting rankings lie" Look you play the best players you can so the younger guys can learn. That's why teams always prefer to play upper classmen. So you aren't going to take Cooper/Pole out just for Barber/Tapa.
Vaeo was someone we wanted on the field for sure but didn't know where to put him. So he was moved around.
And Pole & Cooper both got a RS year. Barber had a major knee injury his freshmen year in camp
I also believe the offensive line is lightyears above where it was. I believe while the coaching was fine at receiver under Wulff, the amount of depth is much better and to the point where WSU reloads receivers now. Connor Halliday was night and day from what he was early in his career to where he is now. The coaching is much better and in my opinion the position is much deeper. Disagree if you like.
The defense as a whole, we will have to see. I see good things, but until they actually do it, it is just words.
Is the question about exposure to risk in a meaningless game and playing them in the meaningless game? Just out of curiosity, if you could ask Leach would he have played Tuel in that game, what do you think his answer would be?
Sure, Ed, in retrospect.
The way I see it now... Is that Leach had to have gone into last season with some question about his D coordinator. He wasn't going to hamstring him
by sitting Cooper and Pole
The way I see it now... Is that Leach had to have gone into last season with some question about his D coordinator. He wasn't going to hamstring him
by sitting Cooper and Pole
Still a no, then?
No, I bet Leach would not have brought his flu-ridden starting QB into a game against a doormat FCS team that was already well in hand, but you've insisted you have evidence to the contrary.
Still waiting, Matlock.
Besides, except for QB (and perhaps RB by rotating in), you really do not see coaches flat out sitting down better players for younger players. You may see them in a rotation, which is what you want anyway.
Easy, ask him. Not sure why you don't think he would. He wants gritty players. He wants players to play through pain. The player was cleared by the doc.
Again, what you are saying is you believe a coach would avoid a risk in a game that didn't matter. Clearly Leach has shown you otherwise. But you don't object to Tuel playing, you object Tuel getting hurt. So if Tuel didn't get hurt, the decision and the decision process was fine in your book.
If there are 70 snaps in a game, and pole and Cooper took 50 of them, it would have beneficial to the program to have the young kids take at least 35 or forty and have the older kids take the remainder, especially if they are more talented and just need the experience.
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I've given you no answer, so you made stuff up and gave me credit for it.
And I'm not asking for "wants gritty players", when YOU said there'd be a "Leach played his sick starting QB with the game in hand against an FCS doormat, like Paul Wulff did". All this other stuff is you making noise to cover for a terrible coaching decision by a coach you can stop defending anytime, because you're the quicksand of defense- the more you try, the deeper you sink.
Actually it is not. A couple of things. Are you saying because he was sick that is why it happened? Do you believe for one minute if he was healthy he doesn't get hurt on that same play?
If I read you correctly it was a bad decision because game was in hand, he was sick earlier but got cleared to play, it was against a lower level team in a nothing game and the outcome was decided, and he got hurt. Are you ok with that type of decision if the game is in hand, he was cleared to play and he doesn't get hurt? It sounds like what made it a bad decision was he got hurt, but you would have been ok with the decision and risk if he wasn't hurt. Is that a correct read?
No, the player who's sick is inherently more susceptible to the risk of injury. The process AND result were bad.
Really, there is evidence and data shows that people who had the flew are more susceptible to injury? Agree, the result was bad, but not sure Wulff made a decision any different than coaches keeping their only QB in the game long after the game was decided.
It's different because he was sick, and not Wulffs only QB, just for starters, but I'd imagine that "data" doesn't exist, but let's use common sense. Go for a jog tonight.
Then wait a couple months, and do it the next time you're sick with the flu.
Report back on how different your body felt when you were sick. Because it will.
People play with a fever all the time. What got him hurt was being stupid, not having a fever.
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