New details Thread

[M-I-Coug]

Evidence that DOES NOT demand a verdict.

This just in:

Police found knife, gun at U of Idaho killings suspect’s family home

The newly unsealed search warrants reveal what investigators in Pennsylvania seized when they arrested Bryan Kohberger nearly seven weeks after the killings of four University of Idaho students.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[95coug]

Evidence that DOES NOT demand a verdict.

This just in:

Police found knife, gun at U of Idaho killings suspect’s family home

The newly unsealed search warrants reveal what investigators in Pennsylvania seized when they arrested Bryan Kohberger nearly seven weeks after the killings of four University of Idaho students.

www.seattletimes.com

Frankly, taken by itself this is meaningless. From the information released, there's nothing that indicates either of the knives belonged to him (this is from the search of his parents' house in PA) or that they've even been in the state of Idaho. The gloves and flashlight don't provide evidence of anything, you can probably find those in most of our houses.

The clothes could be meaningful, if he was dumb enough to keep them and then travel across the country with them. I'm willing to bet he was not. I'm also willing to bet that the knife is in the river in Lewiston, or that it and the murder clothes are buried somewhere south of Moscow. The shovel found in the car makes me suspect the latter a little more, but by itself the shovel also isn't necessarily evidence.

The car is potentially critical. A single drop of victim's blood (better yet, mixed victims' blood) will put the needle in his arm, and the most likely place to find that is in the car. From descriptions of the scene and the apparent process, there are multiple factors that make it very likely that he had blood on his clothes, and if those clothes then went into the car, they could find transfer.

My assumption remains that MPD and FBI have much more than they've released, and that this is going to be a slam dunk. Anything additional that they get from Pennsylvania will just serve to speed the path to the execution chamber, and give multiple ways to convict him if the defense manages to get some evidence suppressed.

 

[Coug90]

Frankly, taken by itself this is meaningless. From the information released, there's nothing that indicates either of the knives belonged to him (this is from the search of his parents' house in PA) or that they've even been in the state of Idaho. The gloves and flashlight don't provide evidence of anything, you can probably find those in most of our houses.

The clothes could be meaningful, if he was dumb enough to keep them and then travel across the country with them. I'm willing to bet he was not. I'm also willing to bet that the knife is in the river in Lewiston, or that it and the murder clothes are buried somewhere south of Moscow. The shovel found in the car makes me suspect the latter a little more, but by itself the shovel also isn't necessarily evidence.

The car is potentially critical. A single drop of victim's blood (better yet, mixed victims' blood) will put the needle in his arm, and the most likely place to find that is in the car. From descriptions of the scene and the apparent process, there are multiple factors that make it very likely that he had blood on his clothes, and if those clothes then went into the car, they could find transfer.

My assumption remains that MPD and FBI have much more than they've released, and that this is going to be a slam dunk. Anything additional that they get from Pennsylvania will just serve to speed the path to the execution chamber, and give multiple ways to convict him if the defense manages to get some evidence suppressed.

100%. If he’s the guy, and he drove his car there he’s toast. And they probably have quite a bit more. If all they have is the sheath (in theory could be planted) and digital info that’s probably not enough, and quite frankly he likely didn’t do it…or he was an accomplice to someone else. More likely that’s the tip of the iceburg though.

 

[M-I-Coug]

Frankly, taken by itself this is meaningless. From the information released, there's nothing that indicates either of the knives belonged to him (this is from the search of his parents' house in PA) or that they've even been in the state of Idaho. The gloves and flashlight don't provide evidence of anything, you can probably find those in most of our houses.

The clothes could be meaningful, if he was dumb enough to keep them and then travel across the country with them. I'm willing to bet he was not. I'm also willing to bet that the knife is in the river in Lewiston, or that it and the murder clothes are buried somewhere south of Moscow. The shovel found in the car makes me suspect the latter a little more, but by itself the shovel also isn't necessarily evidence.

The car is potentially critical. A single drop of victim's blood (better yet, mixed victims' blood) will put the needle in his arm, and the most likely place to find that is in the car. From descriptions of the scene and the apparent process, there are multiple factors that make it very likely that he had blood on his clothes, and if those clothes then went into the car, they could find transfer.

My assumption remains that MPD and FBI have much more than they've released, and that this is going to be a slam dunk. Anything additional that they get from Pennsylvania will just serve to speed the path to the execution chamber, and give multiple ways to convict him if the defense manages to get some evidence suppressed.

Agreed with everything you said.

My lead in liner is meant to be a “spoof”, based on the book from the 70’s by Josh McDowell, “Evidence That Demands A Verdict “.

 

[95coug]

100%. If he’s the guy, and he drove his car there he’s toast. And they probably have quite a bit more. If all they have is the sheath (in theory could be planted) and digital info that’s probably not enough, and quite frankly he likely didn’t do it…or he was an accomplice to someone else. More likely that’s the tip of the iceburg though.

Yeah, there has to be more. There's no way they put the entire case in the affidavit. I assume they put in just enough to get the search warrants and convince the PA authorities to surveil and arrest him. Really, as circumstantial as that evidence is, I don't think he'd be held without bail based on it. There must be something that they held back from the public that convinced the judge he's a flight and/or physical risk if released.

It could be very simple - if they found a drop of his blood at the scene, and matched it to the DNA swab they took from him upon arrest - he's about an inch away from the needle. Any trace of victim's blood on his clothes, in his car, apartment, etc. moves him an inch and a half closer.

Agreed with everything you said.

My lead in liner is meant to be a “spoof”, based on the book from the 70’s by Josh McDowell, “Evidence That Demands A Verdict “.

I expect that after review of the prosecution evidence turned over in discovery, the conversation between him and his attorney is something like: "They have 17 different ways to convict you, we can't make them all go away. If we go to trial, you're going to die. If we can get the prosecutor to take the death penalty off the table, you should plead guilty in June."

And...just to end the story and avoid the expense (if this goes to trial, we're easily a year from a conclusion...and that doesn't count the appeals), I'm confident that the prosecutor would take that deal. Possibly conditioned on him telling what he did with the knife and clothes and then explaining why.

 

[Observer11]

Yeah, there has to be more. There's no way they put the entire case in the affidavit. I assume they put in just enough to get the search warrants and convince the PA authorities to surveil and arrest him. Really, as circumstantial as that evidence is, I don't think he'd be held without bail based on it. There must be something that they held back from the public that convinced the judge he's a flight and/or physical risk if released.

It could be very simple - if they found a drop of his blood at the scene, and matched it to the DNA swab they took from him upon arrest - he's about an inch away from the needle. Any trace of victim's blood on his clothes, in his car, apartment, etc. moves him an inch and a half closer.


I expect that after review of the prosecution evidence turned over in discovery, the conversation between him and his attorney is something like: "They have 17 different ways to convict you, we can't make them all go away. If we go to trial, you're going to die. If we can get the prosecutor to take the death penalty off the table, you should plead guilty in June."

And...just to end the story and avoid the expense (if this goes to trial, we're easily a year from a conclusion...and that doesn't count the appeals), I'm confident that the prosecutor would take that deal. Possibly conditioned on him telling what he did with the knife and clothes and then explaining why.

There won't be any deal if he's dead to rights.

This has torn an entire region apart. Top news story, front page for months (not the tabloid stuff - real, local news showing the people impact by this). The public wants justice.

It's Idaho, too. Not Washington. Make no mistake - there is a difference in the culture a mere 8 miles away.

 

[Coug90]

There won't be any deal if he's dead to rights.

This has torn an entire region apart. Top news story, front page for months (not the tabloid stuff - real, local news showing the people impact by this). The public wants justice.

It's Idaho, too. Not Washington. Make no mistake - there is a difference in the culture a mere 8 miles away.

Is there ever really a slam dunk though? OJ walks free because the DA F’d up and had him try the glove on and Cochran came up with his line. There can always be the question brought up of bad police work or a devastating mistake by the prosecution that leads to one juror questioning guilt…right?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Apparently they also secured the gas and brake pedals off of his car. I like that! Taihtsat

 

[Loyal Coug1]

There won't be any deal if he's dead to rights.

This has torn an entire region apart. Top news story, front page for months (not the tabloid stuff - real, local news showing the people impact by this). The public wants justice.

It's Idaho, too. Not Washington. Make no mistake - there is a difference in the culture a mere 8 miles away.

Yeah - no f-ing way an Idaho prosecutor agrees to a non-death sentence for someone who knifed 4 young people to death. Hope so anyway. This f-er is guilty. Just look at the creep. Embarrased that my alma mater enrolled him in the first place. What a stain on WSU. Although I'm sure Choppy can put a positive spin on it. "Dr. Shulz was being inclusive by enrolling mass murderers into our PhD programs".

 

[95coug]

All of the actual warrants are sealed, but a list of 60+ entities served with warrants was released today. Looking through it suggests one of 2 things: either they’re desperately searching for anything further than what’s already been released, or they have a mountain of evidence that hasn’t been released.

I lean toward the latter.

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

It's Idaho, too. Not Washington. Make no mistake - there is a difference in the culture a mere 8 miles away.

Wait - what??? I can't speak about the culture over in Pullman but I can speak about the culture in Moscow. Most of Moscow is politically more in line with Seattle than is is with the rest of the state of Idaho.

 

[Observer11]

Wait - what??? I can't speak about the culture over in Pullman but I can speak about the culture in Moscow. Most of Moscow is politically more in line with Seattle than is is with the rest of the state of Idaho.

There’s more to Latah County than the campus

 

[COUGinNCW]

Wait - what??? I can't speak about the culture over in Pullman but I can speak about the culture in Moscow. Most of Moscow is politically more in line with Seattle than is is with the rest of the state of Idaho.

The San Francisco of Idaho as I’ve heard it referred to as.

 

[Observer11]

The San Francisco of Idaho as I’ve heard it referred to as.

Martin vs. Boise. The gold standard case fueling the downfall of the formerly great cities of the West.

And the Supreme Court declined to hear the appeal.

The fix is in at all levels.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

There won't be any deal if he's dead to rights.

This has torn an entire region apart. Top news story, front page for months (not the tabloid stuff - real, local news showing the people impact by this). The public wants justice.

It's Idaho, too. Not Washington. Make no mistake - there is a difference in the culture a mere 8 miles away.

Sorry, if he is willing to plead guilty and accept four life sentences...there will be no trial. Dennis Rader aka BTK was captured in 2005. He terrorized his community in the 70's and 80's and was taunting the police and the public when he was arrested. He was a legit serial killer and the fear in Wichita in the 70's and 80's was far greater because there was justified fear that you could come home and he'd be there. It wasn't a one time event. Imagine six more murders after the first one and you are getting to the level that BTK was at.

All the above is to say that BTK pled guilty and it was accepted. They gave the cocksucker the opportunity to brag in court about what he did as a precursor to the sentencing but they accepted the plea.

The main reasons why a good prosecutor accepts the plea deal are two-fold. 1) nothing is guaranteed and you should never take that risk out of vengeance or pride and 2) it is extremely traumatizing to subject a jury to the evidence that is necessary to get a conviction.

My wife worked with a gal who served on the jury for the Carr Brothers murder trial. If you aren't aware of that story, it makes the Moscow murders look like child's play. Two creeps from Dodge City came to Wichita in December 2000. They went on a crime spree where they kidnapped a couple people and forced them to take money from ATM's before shooting them (one died). They followed that up with a night where they broke into a house with five people in it, sexually assaulted the women, forced the men to have sex with the women, forced the women to perform sexual acts on each other, took the victims to ATM's to withdraw money, raped a dog with a broom handle and finished off the night by taking the victims to a field where they executed all but one of the victims. The one who survived was shot in the head and ran over by a truck but still managed to get to a house to report the crime.

That co-worker was so traumatized by the evidence presented at the trial that she quit working and became a recluse. Now, the 2000 murders in Wichita were far worse than what happened in Moscow, but still....you don't go to trial and subject everyone to that trauma just to prove that you are a badass prosecutor with an airtight case.

 

[Coug90]

Sorry, if he is willing to plead guilty and accept four life sentences...there will be no trial. Dennis Rader aka BTK was captured in 2005. He terrorized his community in the 70's and 80's and was taunting the police and the public when he was arrested. He was a legit serial killer and the fear in Wichita in the 70's and 80's was far greater because there was justified fear that you could come home and he'd be there. It wasn't a one time event. Imagine six more murders after the first one and you are getting to the level that BTK was at.

All the above is to say that BTK pled guilty and it was accepted. They gave the cocksucker the opportunity to brag in court about what he did as a precursor to the sentencing but they accepted the plea.

The main reasons why a good prosecutor accepts the plea deal are two-fold. 1) nothing is guaranteed and you should never take that risk out of vengeance or pride and 2) it is extremely traumatizing to subject a jury to the evidence that is necessary to get a conviction.

My wife worked with a gal who served on the jury for the Carr Brothers murder trial. If you aren't aware of that story, it makes the Moscow murders look like child's play. Two creeps from Dodge City came to Wichita in December 2000. They went on a crime spree where they kidnapped a couple people and forced them to take money from ATM's before shooting them (one died). They followed that up with a night where they broke into a house with five people in it, sexually assaulted the women, forced the men to have sex with the women, forced the women to perform sexual acts on each other, took the victims to ATM's to withdraw money, raped a dog with a broom handle and finished off the night by taking the victims to a field where they executed all but one of the victims. The one who survived was shot in the head and ran over by a truck but still managed to get to a house to report the crime.

That co-worker was so traumatized by the evidence presented at the trial that she quit working and became a recluse. Now, the 2000 murders in Wichita were far worse than what happened in Moscow, but still....you don't go to trial and subject everyone to that trauma just to prove that you are a badass prosecutor with an airtight case.

Kinda what I’m thinking too. There’s always a risk going to trial. I mentioned the OJ case…one mistake by the prosecution, one investigator with a questionable background or who made some bad decisions (Fuhrman) with a slick defense attorney all of a sudden you can have reasonable doubt. Everyone wants to see him eliminated if the evidence is overwhelming, but A. Life without parole costs taxpayers less than the death penalty B. His prison life will probably be hell anyways and may be a worse sentence than death and C. There’s never a slam dunk with our justice system…it’s not perfect and guilty folks walk

If there’s an opportunity to lock him up and throw away the key with no risk you take it.

 

[COUGinNCW]

If there are other victims he may have that to offer up for a life in prison sentence. Other than that, if the case is super rock solid, he should be negotiating to pick his means of execution.

 

[Coug90]

If there are other victims he may have that to offer up for a life in prison sentence. Other than that, if the case is super rock solid, he should be negotiating to pick his means of execution.

Rock solid isn’t a guarantee. Case will probably be rock solid. Takes one juror to interpret reasonable doubt because a police officer at the scene wasn’t wearing latex gloves…or some type of technicality BS. Last thing you want is for him to walk. If it was him any doubt he’d do it again? How many times did Bundy slip from the law then got right back to it.

 

[Stretch 74]

Sorry, if he is willing to plead guilty and accept four life sentences...there will be no trial. Dennis Rader aka BTK was captured in 2005. He terrorized his community in the 70's and 80's and was taunting the police and the public when he was arrested. He was a legit serial killer and the fear in Wichita in the 70's and 80's was far greater because there was justified fear that you could come home and he'd be there. It wasn't a one time event. Imagine six more murders after the first one and you are getting to the level that BTK was at.

All the above is to say that BTK pled guilty and it was accepted. They gave the cocksucker the opportunity to brag in court about what he did as a precursor to the sentencing but they accepted the plea.

The main reasons why a good prosecutor accepts the plea deal are two-fold. 1) nothing is guaranteed and you should never take that risk out of vengeance or pride and 2) it is extremely traumatizing to subject a jury to the evidence that is necessary to get a conviction.

My wife worked with a gal who served on the jury for the Carr Brothers murder trial. If you aren't aware of that story, it makes the Moscow murders look like child's play. Two creeps from Dodge City came to Wichita in December 2000. They went on a crime spree where they kidnapped a couple people and forced them to take money from ATM's before shooting them (one died). They followed that up with a night where they broke into a house with five people in it, sexually assaulted the women, forced the men to have sex with the women, forced the women to perform sexual acts on each other, took the victims to ATM's to withdraw money, raped a dog with a broom handle and finished off the night by taking the victims to a field where they executed all but one of the victims. The one who survived was shot in the head and ran over by a truck but still managed to get to a house to report the crime.

That co-worker was so traumatized by the evidence presented at the trial that she quit working and became a recluse. Now, the 2000 murders in Wichita were far worse than what happened in Moscow, but still....you don't go to trial and subject everyone to that trauma just to prove that you are a badass prosecutor with an airtight case.

Plus, how many times does a criminal get a death sentence that is never carried out? I don't have the data on that, but my feeling is that it is very prevalent. And you end up with the asshole in prison doing appeal after appeal, all paid for by our tax dollars. So even though a death sentence was given, it becomes a defacto life sentence.

Yes, he certainly deserves the death penalty if it is proven he committed the murders, but a guaranteed life sentence with no chance for parole is an option that should be taken.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Plus, how many times does a criminal get a death sentence that is never carried out? I don't have the data on that, but my feeling is that it is very prevalent. And you end up with the asshole in prison doing appeal after appeal, all paid for by our tax dollars. So even though a death sentence was given, it becomes a defacto life sentence.

Yes, he certainly deserves the death penalty if it is proven he committed the murders, but a guaranteed life sentence with no chance for parole is an option that should be taken.

The Carr Brothers committed their crimes in December 2000 and were arrested the day after the murders thanks to the one victim surviving and information that they had already been working on from the prior two victims. They were sentenced to death in 2002. 21 years later, they are still both alive and were recently rejected in their most recent appeal.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Sorry, if he is willing to plead guilty and accept four life sentences...there will be no trial. Dennis Rader aka BTK was captured in 2005. He terrorized his community in the 70's and 80's and was taunting the police and the public when he was arrested. He was a legit serial killer and the fear in Wichita in the 70's and 80's was far greater because there was justified fear that you could come home and he'd be there. It wasn't a one time event. Imagine six more murders after the first one and you are getting to the level that BTK was at.

All the above is to say that BTK pled guilty and it was accepted. They gave the cocksucker the opportunity to brag in court about what he did as a precursor to the sentencing but they accepted the plea.

The main reasons why a good prosecutor accepts the plea deal are two-fold. 1) nothing is guaranteed and you should never take that risk out of vengeance or pride and 2) it is extremely traumatizing to subject a jury to the evidence that is necessary to get a conviction.

My wife worked with a gal who served on the jury for the Carr Brothers murder trial. If you aren't aware of that story, it makes the Moscow murders look like child's play. Two creeps from Dodge City came to Wichita in December 2000. They went on a crime spree where they kidnapped a couple people and forced them to take money from ATM's before shooting them (one died). They followed that up with a night where they broke into a house with five people in it, sexually assaulted the women, forced the men to have sex with the women, forced the women to perform sexual acts on each other, took the victims to ATM's to withdraw money, raped a dog with a broom handle and finished off the night by taking the victims to a field where they executed all but one of the victims. The one who survived was shot in the head and ran over by a truck but still managed to get to a house to report the crime.

That co-worker was so traumatized by the evidence presented at the trial that she quit working and became a recluse. Now, the 2000 murders in Wichita were far worse than what happened in Moscow, but still....you don't go to trial and subject everyone to that trauma just to prove that you are a badass prosecutor with an airtight case.

Seems absurd to compare murders to each other. I'm sure these kids parents would feel their child's murder was equally horrific as the Carr murders.

 

[95coug]

Seems absurd to compare murders to each other. I'm sure these kids parents would feel their child's murder was equally horrific as the Carr murders.

Families are the other consideration. Few prosecutors will subject the family to a trial and the uncertainty of a verdict, plus the likely years of appeals, if there’s a plea that will put him away forever.

Plus, the defense strategy at trial will be just like it was for OJ - put the victims on trial, put the police on trial. Don’t let the trial be about the defendant. Make claims that are sensational and embarrassing. Turn the entire MPD and FBI into bumbling fools, and the girls into flirtatious bimbos who teased him and then rejected him. The truth doesn’t matter…pull any string to make the victims less sympathetic and try to get just one juror to feel bad for the guy who just couldn’t take it anymore.

It’s a long shot strategy, but it’s probably all he’s got. And it worked for OJ.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Seems absurd to compare murders to each other. I'm sure these kids parents would feel their child's murder was equally horrific as the Carr murders.

What you failed to comprehend before making the post was that I was saying that even though the Carr murders had a lot of additional factors that made them objectively more horrific....you still don't go to trial if you don't need to. Bryan Kohberger may deserve the death penalty but if you can put him away for four life sentences, you take the deal.

As for the parents feeling that their children's murders were just as horrific....that's called a lack of objectivity and it's understandable that they would feel that way.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The Carr Brothers committed their crimes in December 2000 and were arrested the day after the murders thanks to the one victim surviving and information that they had already been working on from the prior two victims. They were sentenced to death in 2002. 21 years later, they are still both alive and were recently rejected in their most recent appeal.

F-ing lawyers. That's the problem. Bloodsucking leaches on society. Right Gibby?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

What you failed to comprehend before making the post was that I was saying that even though the Carr murders had a lot of additional factors that made them objectively more horrific....you still don't go to trial if you don't need to. Bryan Kohberger may deserve the death penalty but if you can put him away for four life sentences, you take the deal.

As for the parents feeling that their children's murders were just as horrific....that's called a lack of objectivity and it's understandable that they would feel that way.

I comprehended it completely. You could have made a post about 100 other murder cases and just said "murder case", but for some ridiculous reason you felt compelled to spell out the gory details, like it was a contest.

As far as "lack of objectivity", you continue to seem to think that your special murders were "better" than the Idaho kids'. I refuse to "objectively" compare one person violently losing their life to another person and rank them based on... gore? Intent? I mean, lets hear it, you seem to have a ranking system for murders, so lay it out how the four Idaho kids had it so much better than the BTK victims or the Carr victims. Make sure you cc the Idaho kids' families on it as well, I'm sure they'd be thrilled with your analysis.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Families are the other consideration. Few prosecutors will subject the family to a trial and the uncertainty of a verdict, plus the likely years of appeals, if there’s a plea that will put him away forever.

Plus, the defense strategy at trial will be just like it was for OJ - put the victims on trial, put the police on trial. Don’t let the trial be about the defendant. Make claims that are sensational and embarrassing. Turn the entire MPD and FBI into bumbling fools, and the girls into flirtatious bimbos who teased him and then rejected him. The truth doesn’t matter…pull any string to make the victims less sympathetic and try to get just one juror to feel bad for the guy who just couldn’t take it anymore.

It’s a long shot strategy, but it’s probably all he’s got. And it worked for OJ.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any lawyer that would commit character assassination on any of those kids. Bad police work, of course, but I'm having a tough time with the though exercise of how you would/ could victim blame any of them.

 

[COUGinNCW]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any lawyer that would commit character assassination on any of those kids. Bad police work, of course, but I'm having a tough time with the though exercise of how you would/ could victim blame any of them.

You must not know many lawyers. As disgusting as it is, Victim Shaming is a prerequisite to being a defense attorney.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

You must not know many lawyers. As disgusting as it is, Victim Shaming is a prerequisite to being a defense attorney.

I didn't say they don't do it. Hell, a lady shot her husband in the back and the defense came with "he was an abuser and it was self defense", when all the neighbors knew it was about an affair (Clark Co WA). Dude is in the grave and his kids have to hear about his dad being a POS... allegedly. And only on the one instance. When it was convenient for his wife to shoot him.

She was acquitted, btw.

What I'm saying is that, imho, the public backlash for attacking young people who haven't really gotten a chance to become their future douchebags yet, would be enough to discourage this tactic. I could be, and probably am, wrong though.

 

[95coug]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any lawyer that would commit character assassination on any of those kids. Bad police work, of course, but I'm having a tough time with the though exercise of how you would/ could victim blame any of them.

You'd have to be careful about it, but I don't put much beyond the capacity of a defense attorney. And I have little confidence that the public defender will be the attorney who takes this to trial, I think some leech will step forward with the thoughts of getting his name in the paper.

And, I've said before...if the defense claims he had a relationship with one of the girls, it explains the presence of his DNA, fingerprints/fibers, his shoeprints, and why he was near the house so many times. Then they don't need to put the victims on trial...they just say he didn't do it.

Honestly, to me he's displaying his guilt right now. Innocent people don't roll over and allow themselves to be held without bail for 7 months. If I'd been picked up for this, I'm not waiving my right to a speedy trial, and I'm arguing with the no bail decision. You think I did it? Let's go to court tomorrow, and you prove it. You can't? Then let me go home.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

You'd have to be careful about it, but I don't put much beyond the capacity of a defense attorney. And I have little confidence that the public defender will be the attorney who takes this to trial, I think some leech will step forward with the thoughts of getting his name in the paper.

And, I've said before...if the defense claims he had a relationship with one of the girls, it explains the presence of his DNA, fingerprints/fibers, his shoeprints, and why he was near the house so many times. Then they don't need to put the victims on trial...they just say he didn't do it.

Honestly, to me he's displaying his guilt right now. Innocent people don't roll over and allow themselves to be held without bail for 7 months. If I'd been picked up for this, I'm not waiving my right to a speedy trial, and I'm arguing with the no bail decision. You think I did it? Let's go to court tomorrow, and you prove it. You can't? Then let me go home.

Mark Geragos comes to mind...

Not sure if you knew this, but Chris Brown is just a peach of a dude. According to Geragos.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

You must not know many lawyers. As disgusting as it is, Victim Shaming is a prerequisite to being a defense attorney.

No shit. Most lawyers have no morals, no ethics, and no shame. I could tell stories. Down here in YakiVegas, they can't find lawyers who will work as prosecutors or defense attorneys. But every other billboard in town advertises guess what - personal injury law firms. Bunch of smiling ghouls guaranteeing to get you a big settlement for your fender bender.

 

[Stretch 74]

No shit. Most lawyers have no morals, no ethics, and no shame. I could tell stories. Down here in YakiVegas, they can't find lawyers who will work as prosecutors or defense attorneys. But every other billboard in town advertises guess what - personal injury law firms. Bunch of smiling ghouls guaranteeing to get you a big settlement for your fender bender.

Not sure that "most" is the correct word, but certainly "many", or at least "too many" would be fitting.

And look at what the next batch of the legal profession is kicking out- that precocious bunch of little assholes at Stanford Law School just got done shouting done a federal judge that had been invited to speak to them. Perhaps they need some remedial education about the First Amendment, plus some teaching about decorum and respect for others. As far as I am concerned, every one of those snowflakes that disrupted the proceeding and then walked out should be suspended, if not kicked out for their actions. Plus the Dean of Wokeness that stepped in and lectured the judge should be fired. There is no excess for any of them disrespecting a federal judge like that.

And, there was recent similar situation at the Yale Law School. Just wait until all those entitled little shits have been attacking freedom of speech for 2-3 decades and none of us that are still alive will recognize our country.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Not sure that "most" is the correct word, but certainly "many", or at least "too many" would be fitting.

And look at what the next batch of the legal profession is kicking out- that precocious bunch of little assholes at Stanford Law School just got done shouting done a federal judge that had been invited to speak to them. Perhaps they need some remedial education about the First Amendment, plus some teaching about decorum and respect for others. As far as I am concerned, every one of those snowflakes that disrupted the proceeding and then walked out should be suspended, if not kicked out for their actions. Plus the Dean of Wokeness that stepped in and lectured the judge should be fired. There is no excess for any of them disrespecting a federal judge like that.

And, there was recent similar situation at the Yale Law School. Just wait until all those entitled little shits have been attacking freedom of speech for 2-3 decades and none of us that are still alive will recognize our country.

Even better.

Judge Kyle Duncan was invited by a select group of students, a club on campus. The speech was then descended upon by the miscreants who then had the DEI Dean stick up for them (because heaven forbid a lawyer make their own argument) and tell him that the students didn't feel safe with him there because of his words. Or how about a give and take on his rulings? Heaven forbid they hear and/ or learn something from someone who doesn't walk lockstep with their ideology.

They went to this event willingly, and then claimed assault. I mean of course, right?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I comprehended it completely. You could have made a post about 100 other murder cases and just said "murder case", but for some ridiculous reason you felt compelled to spell out the gory details, like it was a contest.

As far as "lack of objectivity", you continue to seem to think that your special murders were "better" than the Idaho kids'. I refuse to "objectively" compare one person violently losing their life to another person and rank them based on... gore? Intent? I mean, lets hear it, you seem to have a ranking system for murders, so lay it out how the four Idaho kids had it so much better than the BTK victims or the Carr victims. Make sure you cc the Idaho kids' families on it as well, I'm sure they'd be thrilled with your analysis.

They are not my "special" murders. I never said that the Idaho murder victims had it "better" than the other victims. That's just you being an a$$hole. That you took my post as some kind of contest and that you felt one-upped or whatever you felt says a lot more about you than it does about me. People love to project their feelings onto other people on the internet and you are definitely the champ of that in this instance.

 

[kougkurt]

Even better.

Judge Kyle Duncan was invited by a select group of students, a club on campus. The speech was then descended upon by the miscreants who then had the DEI Dean stick up for them (because heaven forbid a lawyer make their own argument) and tell him that the students didn't feel safe with him there because of his words. Or how about a give and take on his rulings? Heaven forbid they hear and/ or learn something from someone who doesn't walk lockstep with their ideology.

They went to this event willingly, and then claimed assault. I mean of course, right?

He was set up

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

They are not my "special" murders. I never said that the Idaho murder victims had it "better" than the other victims. That's just you being an a$$hole. That you took my post as some kind of contest and that you felt one-upped or whatever you felt says a lot more about you than it does about me. People love to project their feelings onto other people on the internet and you are definitely the champ of that in this instance.

Own you words. Go back and read what you wrote. Its ok to be wrong, learn, and move on.

As for the parents feeling that their children's murders were just as horrific....that's called a lack of objectivity and it's understandable that they would feel that way.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Own you words, coward. Go back and read what you wrote. Its ok to be wrong, learn, and move on.

As for the parents feeling that their children's murders were just as horrific....that's called a lack of objectivity and it's understandable that they would feel that way.

Where did I say that they had it better?

My point on bringing those up, which you are clearly too stupid too realize, is that regardless of the severity of the crimes, you put a criminal away for life when you can. You don't force a trial just for the sake of vengeance. That Carr Brothers trial that led to a death penalty has really just meant that they've spent 20 years in relative isolation, but they are still alive. Trials for the sake of vengeance are stupid and petty.

You are the only asshole on here who is focusing and obsessing about the sentence where I said that the other crimes were worse.....and what makes you an asshole is the sentence after that which you've chosen to ignore. "you don't go to trial and subject everyone to that trauma just to prove that you are a badass prosecutor with an airtight case." All murders are terrible and you worrying about me saying that some are worse than others is proof that the only thing that some people want to is to argue pointlessly.

And FWIW, I'm grateful that those kids in Moscow didn't have to suffer more than they did...because again, all murders are terrible. But feel free to be an asshole and argue semantics if it makes you feel better.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Where did I say that they had it better?

My point on bringing those up, which you are clearly too stupid too realize, is that regardless of the severity of the crimes, you put a criminal away for life when you can. You don't force a trial just for the sake of vengeance. That Carr Brothers trial that led to a death penalty has really just meant that they've spent 20 years in relative isolation, but they are still alive. Trials for the sake of vengeance are stupid and petty.

You are the only asshole on here who is focusing and obsessing about the sentence where I said that the other crimes were worse.....and what makes you an asshole is the sentence after that which you've chosen to ignore. "you don't go to trial and subject everyone to that trauma just to prove that you are a badass prosecutor with an airtight case." All murders are terrible and you worrying about me saying that some are worse than others is proof that the only thing that some people want to is to argue pointlessly.

And FWIW, I'm grateful that those kids in Moscow didn't have to suffer more than they did...because again, all murders are terrible. But feel free to be an asshole and argue semantics if it makes you feel better.

Cool.

You're pretty worked up for someone who has nothing to defend.

"My wife worked with a gal who served on the jury for the Carr Brothers murder trial. If you aren't aware of that story, it makes the Moscow murders look like child's play."

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Cool.

You're pretty worked up for someone who has nothing to defend.

"My wife worked with a gal who served on the jury for the Carr Brothers murder trial. If you aren't aware of that story, it makes the Moscow murders look like child's play."

C'mon guys. Can't believe you are arguing about which mass murder was worse.

How about you call it a tie and move on?

 

[79COUG]

I'm a bit surprised that it's taken this long however the university has now allowed the families to retrieve their murdered children's belongings from the house.
I understand that the attorneys and the police needed time to process the crime scene but it just seems like a very long delay.