If/when the Pac-MWC reverse merger goes through, will some schools get left behind?

[PeteTheChop]

Pac-2
WSU
OSU

MWC
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
*Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah State
Wyoming

Could or should the Cougs and Beavs throw their P-5 affiliation around and "thin the herd" so to speak?

Which schools might get left behind in such a scenario?

On the other hand, are there schools from other conferences the "New Pac" should go ahead and poach while the gettin's good?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Pac-2
WSU
OSU

MWC
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
*Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
Utah State
Wyoming

Could or should the Cougs and Beavs throw their P-5 affiliation around and "thin the herd" so to speak?

Which schools might get left behind in such a scenario?

On the other hand, are there schools from other conferences the "New Pac" should go ahead and poach while the gettin's good?

My guess is no. All or none. And you forgot UNLV. And IMHO no on any other schools. Keep the rebuilt conference out West where it belongs.

While it sucks to fall out of a conference with the high profile schools like USC, etc., I like this group. We fit better there.

 

[roses04]

The MWC is in control of this, 12 versus 2, and they did WSU and OSU a big favor by making accommodations for scheduling football and it looks like basketball, other sports will probably follow. WSU and OSU still control their own destiny, but we are not in a position to pick and choose who we want from the MWC to form a new league, that is up to the MWC.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The MWC is in control of this, 12 versus 2, and they did WSU and OSU a big favor by making accommodations for scheduling football and it looks like basketball, other sports will probably follow. WSU and OSU still control their own destiny, but we are not in a position to pick and choose who we want from the MWC to form a new league, that is up to the MWC.

Totally agree. Mtn West is driving the bus here. And they are doing us a major solid.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Pac-2
WSU
OSU

MWC
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
*Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
Utah State
Wyoming

Could or should the Cougs and Beavs throw their P-5 affiliation around and "thin the herd" so to speak?

Which schools might get left behind in such a scenario?

On the other hand, are there schools from other conferences the "New Pac" should go ahead and poach while the gettin's good?

So far, the MWC teams are saying that it's an all or none kind of deal. I would prefer a scenario where Cal and Stanford come back to us as the ACC fails and we poach the MWC. It would suck for us to do that but I guess I fall into the "Do unto others have others have done unto you" in this case.

I'd like to see the following in a rebuilt Pac-12:

Air Force
Boise State
Cal
Colorado State
Fresno State
Nevada *
Oregon State
SDSU
Stanford
UNLV
Utah State *
Washington State

Like roses04 says, we aren't in the driver's seat right now and it is hard to say if Cal and Stanford would rather go independent. Nevada and Utah State are the weakest links of that list. Wyoming and Hawaii have slightly bigger athletic budgets and you could argue that they deserve to be considered...but flying to Hawaii would be taxing (and expensive) for our teams. We may get stuck with them, but I really have no desire to have San Jose State or New Mexico if we could avoid them.

That said, I might go down to Albuquerque next year to watch the game since it's within a long day's drive of home.

 

[mikalalas]

Pac-2
WSU
OSU

MWC
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
*Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
Utah State
Wyoming

Could or should the Cougs and Beavs throw their P-5 affiliation around and "thin the herd" so to speak?

Which schools might get left behind in such a scenario?

On the other hand, are there schools from other conferences the "New Pac" should go ahead and poach while the gettin's good?

Yes and no to would they leave some behind.

A lot depends on:

How much left over PAC money they get

Whether they retain control of PAC 12.

Whether the scheduling alliance has a penalty for not taking all MWC teams.

How big that penalty would be.

One thing that can be done, is that can take the TOP 9 MWC colleges, without penalty, because if the Top 9 MWC colleges vote to dissolve the MWC, and then join the PAC X, then there would be NO PENALTY.

The bottom 3 remaining MWC colleges would probably either join the C-USA, Sun Belt, AAC, Big Sky, FCS.

Now will that happen? I don't know.

But it would make sense for both the PAC, MWC, to do so, as the bottom 3 MWC programs would only WEAKEN the PAC X, cause there to be less media money, less bowls, lesser bowls, lesser CFP, NY6 access.

As to who the bottom 3 should be, my votes would be for HAWAII, New Mexico, New Mexico St, Wyoming(Wyoming'awesome season this season is a STATISTICAL ANOMALY)

BSU, SDSU, Fresno St, Airforce, UNLV, Utah St, CSU, are the top choices to join the PAC

Maybe Wyoming.

 

[AlwaysSpokanesFault]

Call me obtuse (I wasn't a math major), but what is the asterisk next to Hawaii for Pete?

 

[PeteTheChop]

you forgot UNLV

Fixed

Thanks Loyal (and hopefully due to your diligence I've called him "Dr" Pat Chun for the last time!)

 

[Loyal Coug1]

So far, the MWC teams are saying that it's an all or none kind of deal. I would prefer a scenario where Cal and Stanford come back to us as the ACC fails and we poach the MWC. It would suck for us to do that but I guess I fall into the "Do unto others have others have done unto you" in this case.

I'd like to see the following in a rebuilt Pac-12:

Air Force
Boise State
Cal
Colorado State
Fresno State
Nevada *
Oregon State
SDSU
Stanford
UNLV
Utah State *
Washington State

Like roses04 says, we aren't in the driver's seat right now and it is hard to say if Cal and Stanford would rather go independent. Nevada and Utah State are the weakest links of that list. Wyoming and Hawaii have slightly bigger athletic budgets and you could argue that they deserve to be considered...but flying to Hawaii would be taxing (and expensive) for our teams. We may get stuck with them, but I really have no desire to have San Jose State or New Mexico if we could avoid them.

That said, I might go down to Albuquerque next year to watch the game since it's within a long day's drive of home.

A little too far for me and the dog. And at 11 miles a gallon that would be an expensive jaunt in the truck and camper. Gawd knows what town along the way I would lose my wallet in this time! . I suppose I could take my Subaru instead.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Call me obtuse (I wasn't a math major), but what is the asterisk next to Hawaii for Pete?

Sorry about that ASF, should've made it clear: the asterisk means Hawaii is only in the MWC for football

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Fixed

Thanks Loyal (and hopefully due to your diligence I've called him "Dr" Pat Chun for the last time!)

No worries Pete. With the guidance and tutelage of the mighty Loyal one, we will get you there. . Some of these other yahoos, not so much!

 

[COUGinNCW]

Hawaii should only be allowed in if they agree to schedule all their home games with WSU Nov 1 or later.

 

[PeteTheChop]

So far, the MWC teams are saying that it's an all or none kind of deal. I would prefer a scenario where Cal and Stanford come back to us as the ACC fails and we poach the MWC. It would suck for us to do that but I guess I fall into the "Do unto others have others have done unto you" in this case.

I'd like to see the following in a rebuilt Pac-12:

Air Force
Boise State
Cal
Colorado State
Fresno State
Nevada *
Oregon State
SDSU
Stanford
UNLV
Utah State *
Washington State

Like roses04 says, we aren't in the driver's seat right now and it is hard to say if Cal and Stanford would rather go independent. Nevada and Utah State are the weakest links of that list. Wyoming and Hawaii have slightly bigger athletic budgets and you could argue that they deserve to be considered...but flying to Hawaii would be taxing (and expensive) for our teams. We may get stuck with them, but I really have no desire to have San Jose State or New Mexico if we could avoid them.

That said, I might go down to Albuquerque next year to watch the game since it's within a long day's drive of home.

Good take as always Flat.

I'd put the schools in tiers, putting value in varying combinations of the following:

• Branding
• TV Eyeballs (i.e. media market, Spokane/Seattle for Cougs and Salem/Portland for Beavs)
• Historical Success
• Fan Support (both attendance and NIL)
• Commitment to Facilities
• Support for Coaches

This isn't the Ivy League; I don't know/care about academic prestige or rankings (maybe because I couldn't have gotten into WSU or a lot of the others 🤷‍♂️)

Tier 1: WSU, OSU, SDSU, Air Force

Tier 2: Boise, Fresno, UNLV

Tier 3: Hawaii, Colorado State, New Mexico, Wyoming

Tier 4: Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State

 

[mikalalas]

Good take as always Flat.

I'd put the schools in tiers, putting value in varying combinations of the following:

• Branding
• TV Eyeballs (i.e. media market, Spokane/Seattle for Cougs and Salem/Portland for Beavs)
• Historical Success
• Fan Support (both attendance and NIL)
• Commitment to Facilities
• Support for Coaches

This isn't the Ivy League; I don't know/care about academic prestige or rankings (maybe because I couldn't have gotten into WSU or a lot of the others 🤷‍♂️)

Tier 1: WSU, OSU, SDSU, Air Force

Tier 2: Boise, Fresno, UNLV

Tier 3: Hawaii, Colorado State, New Mexico, Wyoming

Tier 4: Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State

Utah State is good in both Football, bball.

San Jose St is bad in football but has the potential to be good in football because of the METRO they are in.

UNLV is getting better in football, and have always been pretty ok, good in bball, and are in the LAS VEGAS Metro.

Boise St, is the BIGGEST, most well known, successful brand in MWC. All of America knows who they are, and they get a lot of viewers.

Airforce while good is not as good as BSU, SDSU, Fresno St.

Tier 1:

WSU, OSU, BSU, SDSU, Fresno St

Tier 2:

Airforce, UNLV, Utah St.

Tier 3:

CSU, maybe San Jose St, New Mexico St. Maybe Wyoming, maybe Hawaii

Tier 4:

Nevada, maybe Hawaii, New Mexico, maybe Wyoming, maybe San Jose

The bottom 3 that would get left behind:

Nevada, New Mexico,(Guaranteed in bottom 3)Maybe Hawaii, maybe San Jose St, maybe Wyoming, Maybe New Mexico St

 

[95coug]

The MWC needs 9 of the 12 votes to make anything happen, so I’d say probably not.

Besides, it would be a bad look for us to get left behind, sue over it, and then turn around and do it to someone else.

 

[AlwaysSpokanesFault]

Sorry about that ASF, should've made it clear: the asterisk means Hawaii is only in the MWC for football

Ok, makes total sense. Imagine the AD costs of flying the team over there to play a single Thursday or Saturday game...

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Ok, makes total sense. Imagine the AD costs of flying the team over there to play a single Thursday or Saturday game...

Not sure that would be worse than the mutts flying to NJ to play Rutgers......

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The MWC needs 9 of the 12 votes to make anything happen, so I’d say probably not.

Besides, it would be a bad look for us to get left behind, sue over it, and then turn around and do it to someone else.

We aren't suing for being left behind. We are suing to retain the rights to the conference assets. If a reverse merger happens, those schools can keep the MWC brand......

 

[Loyal Coug1]

We aren't suing for being left behind. We are suing to retain the rights to the conference assets. If a reverse merger happens, those schools can keep the MWC brand......

Nah - we want the Pac-14. Or at worst the PacWest. And when the F are we going to be able to fire Quackkoff?

 

[CougPatrol]

I think we’ll likely absorb them all, but I could see a scheduling alliance of some sort with another league.

I’d love to see a merger with the WCC for the Olympic sports.

 

[95coug]

We aren't suing for being left behind. We are suing to retain the rights to the conference assets. If a reverse merger happens, those schools can keep the MWC brand......

Yes, but that’s not how it would be spun

 

[PeteTheChop]

Not sure that would be worse than the mutts flying to NJ to play Rutgers......

Hmmmmm ....

or

 

[PeteTheChop]

Yes, but that’s not how it would be spun

?

 

[UberCougars]

State of Hawaii doesn’t want to fund football so it’s only a matter of time until they’re out.

Dwindling attendance and revenue will cull the herd even more.

 

[roses04]

Not sure that would be worse than the mutts flying to NJ to play Rutgers......

I'll never tell a Mutt fan, but the trip to Rutgers is actually a pretty good trip. Went to the WSU/ Rutgers game back in 2014 Cougs almost blew it and Falk pulled it out in the final minutes. Flew into NYC on a Thursday, checked into the hotel, had a great diner, spent Friday touring the City, caught a Yankee game on Friday night. Took the Train to Rutgers Sat AM, checked into a hotel close to the Stadium, hit a few bars, caught the game it, was a 4 pm kickoff, which was a plus, went back up to NY on Sunday AM and flew out around noon.

 

[CougInSpain]

Are we sure OSU & WSU aren't in the driver's seat here? Two things I see that would suggest otherwise: 1. Potential control of the conference assets. Mo money, Mo Power. 2. The PAC12 brand. Hunter Biden knows how a name can be lucrative/profitable for you and so does the Mountain West. Why else would they be eager to accommodate us?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

We aren't suing for being left behind. We are suing to retain the rights to the conference assets. If a reverse merger happens, those schools can keep the MWC brand......

None of us MWC fans want to keep the MWC name in a reverse merger. It's Pac-xx all the way.

 

[UberCougars]

Are we sure OSU & WSU aren't in the driver's seat here? Two things I see that would suggest otherwise: 1. Potential control of the conference assets. Mo money, Mo Power. 2. The PAC12 brand. Hunter Biden knows how a name can be lucrative/profitable for you and so does the Mountain West. Why else would they be eager to accommodate us?

When we lose all the assets, can we at least keep all the liabilities?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Ok, makes total sense. Imagine the AD costs of flying the team over there to play a single Thursday or Saturday game...

In Hawaii's current MWC membership they pay travel subsidies to MWC schools travelling to Hawaii.

 

[BSpike76]

When we lose all the assets, can we at least keep all the liabilities?

Quoting Office Space ,”That would be great.”

 

[Dave_86]

So far, the MWC teams are saying that it's an all or none kind of deal. I would prefer a scenario where Cal and Stanford come back to us as the ACC fails and we poach the MWC. It would suck for us to do that but I guess I fall into the "Do unto others have others have done unto you" in this case.

I'm hoping that somehow we see Cal in a conference with OSU & WSU in a couple of years. I listened to the OSU-Cal game online this year and Jim Wilson, the Beaver's analyst, was saying that before the game he talked with several Cal athletic department officials and they all hated the move to the A.C.C.

Interesting to note that Oregon State has Cal on next year's football schedule.

Regarding poaching the Mountain West to rebuild the PAC-12...

I have to believe that several MWC schools feel like they belong in a Power 5 (4) conference, and just missed out in the recent realignment. Schools like San Diego St., Boise St, Fresno St, and even Colorado St probably want to move up from G5 status, but they're stuck in a conference with Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming.

So, should Oregon St. and Washington St just join the MWC, relegating themselves to G5 status, for the benefit of a few schools like Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming?

Nope.

The PAC-2 needs to poach the best of the MWC so that those schools wanting to move from G5 status and head towards Power 5 (4) status have an opportunity to do so.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I'm hoping that somehow we see Cal in a conference with OSU & WSU in a couple of years. I listened to the OSU-Cal game online this year and Jim Wilson, the Beaver's analyst, was saying that before the game he talked with several Cal athletic department officials and they all hated the move to the A.C.C.

Interesting to note that Oregon State has Cal on next year's football schedule.

Regarding poaching the Mountain West to rebuild the PAC-12...

I have to believe that several MWC schools feel like they belong in a Power 5 (4) conference, and just missed out in the recent realignment. Schools like San Diego St., Boise St, Fresno St, and even Colorado St probably want to move up from G5 status, but they're stuck in a conference with Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming.

So, should Oregon St. and Washington St just join the MWC, relegating themselves to G5 status, for the benefit of a few schools like Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming?

Nope.

The PAC-2 needs to poach the best of the MWC so that those schools wanting to move from G5 status and head towards Power 5 (4) status have an opportunity to do so.

Interesting story on Brand X on our "new" Mtn West opponents. Gotta scroll down a bit. Interesting that most have been pretty competitive agst WSU. Hawaii leads the series 3-2, Utah State is 2-2. Both teams that we want to jettison, correct? It goes through all the teams.

 

[425cougfan]

If anyone wants to dig through a lot of thoughts on this stuff from the MWC schools' perspective, there's a pretty active board at https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/forum/6-mwc-sports-forum/. I only have made it through a bit, but it sounds like they have their own sets of issues and politics to sort through, with some "airport meetings" and some smaller groups of schools that seem open to joining a rebuilt Pac that only includes some MWC schools, yet have been held in line to date.

What I can't find a clear answer on is whether the MWC scheduling arrangement included a provision that had heavy penalties if the Pac didn't take all the MWC schools in a reverse merger scenario. That was referenced quite often during the negotiations but I can't find the text of the agreement or anything definitive.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

If anyone wants to dig through a lot of thoughts on this stuff from the MWC schools' perspective, there's a pretty active board at https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/forum/6-mwc-sports-forum/. I only have made it through a bit, but it sounds like they have their own sets of issues and politics to sort through, with some "airport meetings" and some smaller groups of schools that seem open to joining a rebuilt Pac that only includes some MWC schools, yet have been held in line to date.

What I can't find a clear answer on is whether the MWC scheduling arrangement included a provision that had heavy penalties if the Pac didn't take all the MWC schools in a reverse merger scenario. That was referenced quite often during the negotiations but I can't find the text of the agreement or anything definitive.

Kind of a funky site. I've been hanging on Rivals UNLV site (link in upper right hand corner). I'ys pretty active.

 

[Dave_86]

If anyone wants to dig through a lot of thoughts on this stuff from the MWC schools' perspective, there's a pretty active board at https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/forum/6-mwc-sports-forum/. I only have made it through a bit, but it sounds like they have their own sets of issues and politics to sort through, with some "airport meetings" and some smaller groups of schools that seem open to joining a rebuilt Pac that only includes some MWC schools, yet have been held in line to date.

What I can't find a clear answer on is whether the MWC scheduling arrangement included a provision that had heavy penalties if the Pac didn't take all the MWC schools in a reverse merger scenario. That was referenced quite often during the negotiations but I can't find the text of the agreement or anything definitive.

425cougfan - I've been lurking the www.mwcboard.com you linked above and I thought there was a thread where MWC fans were extremely upset with MWC Commissioner Nevarez for not including a poaching penalty in the PAC-2/MWC 2024 football schedule agreement. But I just looked again and couldn't find it.

Here's video of Nevarez dancing around the poaching penalty question. The question is asked at about the 7:16 mark:
Straight from the Gloria's mouth

 

[Loyal Coug1]

425cougfan - I've been lurking the www.mwcboard.com you linked above and I thought there was a thread where MWC fans were extremely upset with MWC Commissioner Nevarez for not including a poaching penalty in the PAC-2/MWC 2024 football schedule agreement. But I just looked again and couldn't find it.

Here's video of Nevarez dancing around the poaching penalty question. The question is asked at about the 7:16 mark:
Straight from the Gloria's mouth

Our next Commissioner

 

[425cougfan]

425cougfan - I've been lurking the www.mwcboard.com you linked above and I thought there was a thread where MWC fans were extremely upset with MWC Commissioner Nevarez for not including a poaching penalty in the PAC-2/MWC 2024 football schedule agreement. But I just looked again and couldn't find it.

Here's video of Nevarez dancing around the poaching penalty question. The question is asked at about the 7:16 mark:
Straight from the Gloria's mouth

Thanks, Dave -- really appreciate it. There are a lot of moving parts here but that is a key issue, IMO.

 

[Stretch 74]

Our next Commissioner

No way can you have a woman running things, especially a Hispanic woman!

 

[Loyal Coug1]

No way can you have a woman running things, especially a Hispanic woman!

Racist AND sexist?

Oh and no comments about her looks? Although IMHO, for a 53-ish woman, she looks pretty good.

 

[Stretch 74]

Racist AND sexist?

Oh and no comments about her looks? Although IMHO, for a 53-ish woman, she looks pretty good.

Remember, Hispanic is NOT a race. I keep having to remind people about that.