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Moving on to DC

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chugspig

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Nov 5, 2011
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Now that our recruits are locked in I wouldn’t mind movement on the staff, but I’m sure that won’t happen until after the 27th.

DC should actually be a decent search knowing we will pay pretty good money to bring in quality coaches, at least at that upper tier. I know Leavitt has been tossed around but I would love to have someone like Ken Wilson, who currently makes 350k come back and bring both recruiting prowess and general coaching ability with some $ to bring in his own assistants. Nothing would be better then a defensive staff on the same page that can recruit. That will be the difference between 6-6 and 8/9 wins every year.

I worry with Leavitt or any large name for that matter, we won’t have much money, or time to rebuild a defense under him as he will demand more $ and likely have opportunities immediately to go on.

Even Salavea is enticing. I’m sure leach has someone up his sleeve to pull it off though.
 
chugspig said:
Now that our recruits are locked in I wouldn’t mind movement on the staff, but I’m sure that won’t happen until after the 27th.

DC should actually be a decent search knowing we will pay pretty good money to bring in quality coaches, at least at that upper tier. I know Leavitt has been tossed around but I would love to have someone like Ken Wilson, who currently makes 350k come back and bring both recruiting prowess and general coaching ability with some $ to bring in his own assistants. Nothing would be better then a defensive staff on the same page that can recruit. That will be the difference between 6-6 and 8/9 wins every year.

I worry with Leavitt or any large name for that matter, we won’t have much money, or time to rebuild a defense under him as he will demand more $ and likely have opportunities immediately to go on.

Even Salavea is enticing. I’m sure leach has someone up his sleeve to pull it off though.
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Part of the reason Wilson gave when he left was he wanted to become a defensive coordinator and he believed this move would help him in that pursuit. Interestingly enough, had he stayed, he likely would have been the interim DC with a chance to become permanent.
 
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1990, you are right and that is always the risk when someone chooses to job hop. Wilson would probably (pretty high odds) be DC now if he had stayed.

One thing that Mike Leach has proven repeatedly: he is connected with an amazingly broad network of people. If everyone is truly only 7 degrees from Kevin Bacon, then Mike Leach is only 1 degree removed from most folks worth considering for a P5 DC, and probably no more than 2 degrees from virtually any reasonable candidate. He is also highly regarded from the perspective of being a HC that will give his subordinates an opportunity to progress within their profession. Mike Leach will have no problem filling this job with someone capable, and if he keeps either of the existing guys, in any capacity, it will be because he believes that they are capable of doing the job.
 
cr8zyncalif said:
1990, you are right and that is always the risk when someone chooses to job hop. Wilson would probably (pretty high odds) be DC now if he had stayed.

One thing that Mike Leach has proven repeatedly: he is connected with an amazingly broad network of people. If everyone is truly only 7 degrees from Kevin Bacon, then Mike Leach is only 1 degree removed from most folks worth considering for a P5 DC, and probably no more than 2 degrees from virtually any reasonable candidate. He is also highly regarded from the perspective of being a HC that will give his subordinates an opportunity to progress within their profession. Mike Leach will have no problem filling this job with someone capable, and if he keeps either of the existing guys, in any capacity, it will be because he believes that they are capable of doing the job.
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I do not believe that he will have a problem either. He does have a preference on what he wants in a DC. He wants a simple defense that allows the players to know their assignments and to play fast. It is what Grinch did and what Claeys did last year. It is similar to how his offense is. It is simple, but they do know their assignments and they do play fast.
 
Wilson might not be a bad choice. Familiarity with the program and the recruiting footprint.

Love Big Joe but Phelps is doing a better job coaching the d-line. I do not see Leach considering Salave'a as DC.

We may get a hint after the Cheez-its Bowl. He may well be spending all of his current attention on the upcoming game and will start his DC search/offering after that. If so and Leavitt is his choice as some have posited then his acceptance or refusal should come quickly. If Wilson is the selection then CML will have to wait until after the U. of O. is finished with the Rose Bowl, i.e. early January. Unless it is Leavitt then I would suspect that we won't have a new DC appointed until after all the bowls are finished. As cr8zy noted, Mike knows and is known in the profession by many. I agree with cr8zy that we can reasonably expect him to make an excellent choice. Annoying to all of us at this time but I think that it will work out in the end.
 
kayak15 said:
Wilson might not be a bad choice. Familiarity with the program and the recruiting footprint.

Love Big Joe but Phelps is doing a better job coaching the d-line. I do not see Leach considering Salave'a as DC.

We may get a hint after the Cheez-its Bowl. He may well be spending all of his current attention on the upcoming game and will start his DC search/offering after that. If so and Leavitt is his choice as some have posited then his acceptance or refusal should come quickly. If Wilson is the selection then CML will have to wait until after the U. of O. is finished with the Rose Bowl, i.e. early January. Unless it is Leavitt then I would suspect that we won't have a new DC appointed until after all the bowls are finished. As cr8zy noted, Mike knows and is known in the profession by many. I agree with cr8zy that we can reasonably expect him to make an excellent choice. Annoying to all of us at this time but I think that it will work out in the end.
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When Leavitt was a CU, they did an excellent job at evaluation of defensive players. They built an outstanding defense under him without very highly rated players. It is similar to what Leach has done with WSU's offense. I think he would be a good choice.
 
Coug1990 said:
I do not believe that he will have a problem either. He does have a preference on what he wants in a DC. He wants a simple defense that allows the players to know their assignments and to play fast. It is what Grinch did and what Claeys did last year. It is similar to how his offense is. It is simple, but they do know their assignments and they do play fast.
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He wants someone that stresses and creates turnovers. "Just get me the ball back."
 
Fab5Coug said:
He wants someone that stresses and creates turnovers. "Just get me the ball back."
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Clayton White, Western Kentucky DC. Only 14 takeaways, but their opponents convert on 3rd down only 29.3% of the time. Different kind of getting the ball back, but it’s doing it a lot (and likely also reduces the total chances for takeaways). For comparison - we faced a similar number of 3rd down attempts (WSU 151, WKU 157). WSU gave up 64 first downs, WKU only 46. That’s 18 extra possessions on the season, 1.5 per game. If those possessions turn into TDs, we’re 9-3 this year.

They only give up 20 points per game, and only give up red zone scores on 73.3% of attempts - and give up TDs at only 50%.
 
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95coug said:
Clayton White, Western Kentucky DC. Only 14 takeaways, but their opponents convert on 3rd down only 29.3% of the time. Different kind of getting the ball back, but it’s doing it a lot (and likely also reduces the total chances for takeaways). For comparison - we faced a similar number of 3rd down attempts (WSU 151, WKU 157). WSU gave up 64 first downs, WKU only 46. That’s 18 extra possessions on the season, 1.5 per game. If those possessions turn into TDs, we’re 9-3 this year.

They only give up 20 points per game, and only give up red zone scores on 73.3% of attempts - and give up TDs at only 50%.
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Leach has gone to Western Kentucky before when he hired former WR Coach Jamarcus Shepherd. So, it is not out of the realm of possibility.
 
We have the right man in place right now. He just needs some time to prove himself.
 
cboom said:
We have the right man in place right now. He just needs some time to prove himself.
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No. We need someone who can really recruit or pulls recruits by name for our Defense to be successful. Were 1 maybe 2 season away from being full on Wulff level on defense.
 
chugspig said:
No. We need someone who can really recruit or pulls recruits by name for our Defense to be successful. Were 1 maybe 2 season away from being full on Wulff level on defense.
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Are we that far away?
 
chugspig said:
Performance wise we’re getting close, but talent wise we’re still alright. With the right coaches we can skip the pit and trend back up. We don’t need to go discount on this hire.
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I’m wondering if you were watching the same games I was. I think we’re already in the pit, and we’re about to start digging.
 
95coug said:
I’m wondering if you were watching the same games I was. I think we’re already in the pit, and we’re about to start digging.
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Yes we are bad, and performance wise pretty similar to Wulff defenses, but there are a decent amount of guys on the D side on our roster who are much more talented then anything we had with Wulff. Given some development and coaching they could level us out at mediocrity pretty quickly.
 
chugspig said:
Yes we are bad, and performance wise pretty similar to Wulff defenses, but there are a decent amount of guys on the D side on our roster who are much more talented then anything we had with Wulff. Given some development and coaching they could level us out at mediocrity pretty quickly.
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X Cooper, Paulo, Long, Pole, Huffman Kaufusi , Mizel, Simmons , Buchanon Horton , Taylor T.... not sure they are overwhelmed in terms of talent the likes of J Rogers , Hobbs etc . Not sure our production was all that different . Then again there may be talent we have yet to see .
 
Look at Wyoming’s DC. He checks boxes for what we are looking for. Given up only 19 total touchdowns and forced 19 turnovers. I think we gave up 19 touchdowns against UCLA.
 
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95coug said:
Clayton White, Western Kentucky DC. Only 14 takeaways, but their opponents convert on 3rd down only 29.3% of the time. Different kind of getting the ball back, but it’s doing it a lot (and likely also reduces the total chances for takeaways). For comparison - we faced a similar number of 3rd down attempts (WSU 151, WKU 157). WSU gave up 64 first downs, WKU only 46. That’s 18 extra possessions on the season, 1.5 per game. If those possessions turn into TDs, we’re 9-3 this year.

They only give up 20 points per game, and only give up red zone scores on 73.3% of attempts - and give up TDs at only 50%.
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What's the scheme?
 
CougEd said:
X Cooper, Paulo, Long, Pole, Huffman Kaufusi , Mizel, Simmons , Buchanon Horton , Taylor T.... not sure they are overwhelmed in terms of talent the likes of J Rogers , Hobbs etc . Not sure our production was all that different . Then again there may be talent we have yet to see .
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did you just list demonte Horton as talent? Daniel Simmons I hope you mean rather then Matt. Taylor Taliulu was a freshman Leach’s first year? Kaufusi was average. Huffman? Hoffman Ellis? Long cooper and Buchannon were all great but that’s it. Talent has been better across the board under Leach’s assistants, they’ve just been bad at developing and retaining them.
 
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chugspig said:
did you just list demonte Horton as talent? Daniel Simmons I hope you mean rather then Matt. Taylor Taliulu was a freshman Leach’s first year? Kaufusi was average. Huffman? Hoffman Ellis? Long cooper and Buchannon were all great but that’s it. Talent has been better across the board under Leach’s assistants, they’ve just been bad at developing and retaining them.
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Are you saying Isom was “better” than Horton ? Rogers and Dillon Sherman better than Kaufusi ? Hoffman Ellis?

Not sure I see this huge talent difference that you do. And yes Daniel Simmons .
 
CougEd said:
Are you saying Isom was “better” than Horton ? Rogers and Dillon Sherman better than Kaufusi ? Hoffman Ellis?

Not sure I see this huge talent difference that you do. And yes Daniel Simmons .
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I never said anything about Isom??? Halid Djibril, Tyrese Ross, Pat Nunn, Marsh etc are all talented guys who have yet to be coached well. Ron Stone, Travion Brown, Willie Taylor. All these guys have more potential then most any guys who played for Wulff. So yes I see talent as potential. Not comparing the average Leach player to the best of Wulffs, nice try though.
 
WASH ST A&M FAN said:
ED praising Wulff

You’re a Loser ED

9-40 is what a guy like you deserves. A Shit Sandwich of a program.
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I was praising Wulff. Interesting . I simply made a comparison where the defense is now to where it was when Leach took over . Sorry that affects your “winner” persona .
 
WASH ST A&M FAN said:
ED praising Wulff

You’re a Loser ED

9-40 is what a guy like you deserves. A Shit Sandwich of a program.
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I'm not going to speak for Ed on this one, but the losing didn't bother a certain portion of the fan base because they'd just smugly pull every day of sunshine out of the 9-40 era.

Remember how we bet the Huskies in OT to clinch their 0-12 season?
Remember Alex Hoffman Ellis getting a couple of pick six TD's to help us beat SMU in OT?
Remember how good we looked in Corvallis in 2010?
Remember how close we got to a bowl in 2011?
Remember Travis Longs stint as an UDFA? He was a perfect example of a scrappy Coug.

The low expectations of these fans were impossible to disappoint, largely because Wulff fit their definition of what it meant to be a Coug. 1) No one saw him as a threat. 2) He really loved being a Coug. 3) He was never going to voluntarily leave.

Leach: 1) is seen by everyone as a threat so folks try to tear him down every chance they get. 2) Leach likes being left alone and coaching. You don't get the sense he wants to retire in Pullman. 3) Leach is gone if he is unhappy with how he's being treated.
 
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CougEd said:
I was praising Wulff. Interesting . I simply made a comparison where the defense is now to where it was when Leach took over . Sorry that affects your “winner” persona .
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This defense has more talent on it than what Leach inherited. Not being where you are supposed to be has nothing to do with talent.
 
chugspig said:
I never said anything about Isom??? Halid Djibril, Tyrese Ross, Pat Nunn, Marsh etc are all talented guys who have yet to be coached well. Ron Stone, Travion Brown, Willie Taylor. All these guys have more potential then most any guys who played for Wulff. So yes I see talent as potential. Not comparing the average Leach player to the best of Wulffs, nice try though.
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First...we are comparing Leach's seasoned class to Wullf's seasoned class. Are you making the argument Wulff's best players in 2011 compare to what we have seen in 2019?

Why wouldn't we not talk about Isom...he started the majority of the year.
 
etowncoug said:
I'm not going to speak for Ed on this one, but the losing didn't bother a certain portion of the fan base because they'd just smugly pull every day of sunshine out of the 9-40 era.

Remember how we bet the Huskies in OT to clinch their 0-12 season?
Remember Alex Hoffman Ellis getting a couple of pick six TD's to help us beat SMU in OT?
Remember how good we looked in Corvallis in 2010?
Remember how close we got to a bowl in 2011?
Remember Travis Longs stint as an UDFA? He was a perfect example of a scrappy Coug.

The low expectations of these fans were impossible to disappoint, largely because Wulff fit their definition of what it meant to be a Coug. 1) No one saw him as a threat. 2) He really loved being a Coug. 3) He was never going to voluntarily leave.

Leach: 1) is seen by everyone as a threat so folks try to tear him down every chance they get. 2) Leach likes being left alone and coaching. You don't get the sense he wants to retire in Pullman. 3) Leach is gone if he is unhappy with how he's being treated.
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You sound a lot like a poster that posted in the past, For a poster that just started in 2018 you sure have a history.

Who in the world finds Leach a threat and tear him down?
 
95coug said:
4-2-5
We don’t really have the personnel to make it work right now, but then again...we don’t really have the personnel to make anything else work either.
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I dunno how a new DC changes the scheme without struggling with personnel changes.

You dont have any DL that can take on and get off blocks. You dont have a pass rusher. You dont have much at LB. Not much at DB.

They need help all over on defense. They tried 4 juco DBs last year and half of them didnt make 1 season.

Im inclined to say just sign 11 HS defenders and start all over. Sign another 11 next year and just keep building depth.
 
95coug said:
4-2-5
We don’t really have the personnel to make it work right now, but then again...we don’t really have the personnel to make anything else work either.
Click to expand...

It’s not like the personnel is ideal for the 335.

I’d like to see what happens with two DTs on the field. On paper we have the bodies.
 
dgibbons said:
Golly. It’s like you’re implying the DC quit in the middle of the season.
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Claeys abrupt departure and the circumstances surrounding it point to an unhealthy coaching situation. But that narrative doesn't work for some.
 
CougEd said:
First...we are comparing Leach's seasoned class to Wullf's seasoned class. Are you making the argument Wulff's best players in 2011 compare to what we have seen in 2019?

Why wouldn't we not talk about Isom...he started the majority of the year.
Click to expand...

Isom sucks as it stands, Horton was somewhat better. Who knows with steady coaching. There are guys on our roster that are young that are 10x what Wulff ever had on his roster outside of Bucannon.

I mean Jared Byers was a decent part of the offense for a year or so. USC kneeled at half time for mercy. JT levenseller got a full ride. Karstetter was our biggest threat.

Way to pull out the highest performers on Wulffs teams and compare them to Leach’s worst. Isom and Rodgers. Travion Brown has more talent then a couple of Wulffs defenses combined. The roster has guys who can be pretty good with the appropriate coaching. That’s the point. Wulffs never did besides a few guys here and there.
 
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CougEd said:
That implies there is a coaching problem.
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Of course there is Ed. The defensive coordinator walked out in the middle of the season 2 years after he himself replaced one of the best young defensive coordinators in college football.

The defensive coaching completely imploded, so yes, there is a coaching problem on that side of the ball.
 
CougPatrol said:
Of course there is Ed. The defensive coordinator walked out in the middle of the season 2 years after he himself replaced one of the best young defensive coordinators in college football.

The defensive coaching completely imploded, so yes, there is a coaching problem on that side of the ball.
Click to expand...

Coaching, evaluation, retention, development. There are a lot of issues on defense.
 
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