Why so much gloom and doom re: Apple Cup 2018

[12375CAT]

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

It's only May, after all.

WSU has a very realistic chance of being a consensus preseason Top 25 team, perhaps slipping into the 16-20 range in some rankings.

Yet it seems like nearly every prediction here at CougZone — even by folks forecasting an 8-4 or better regular season – suggests WSU will lose the Apple Cup.

A few posters even predict a lopsided defeat.

But isn't that unnecessarily pessimistic?

The Cougs have won 5 of the past 14 Apple Cups — not dominant, but, all things considered, not terrible either (It's actually better than the historical average in the series).

Three of the most recent victories were in the friendly confines of Martin Stadium, where the AC returns in late November.

Mike Leach is a future Hall of Famer.

After the last games against UW, maybe CML has something new in store to turn around the rivalry.

Big Cats > Doggies

 

[CougEd]

My arguments are one sided because that’s the side of truth, and while it may make people uncomfortable to hear it. It is the truth, supported by facts, supported by statistics.

Walden didn’t win a single game his last season in college coaching. That is a fact.

Walden also posted more losing seasons than winning seasons. That is a fact.

Walden’s first apple cup win. 3-7-1 season
In 85 he beat a 7-5 husky team and finished with 4 wins.

The truth is Walden lost more than he won. And he won 3 Apple Cups in 9 seasons.

Here’s the huskies record in all 9 of Walden’s seasons

Huskies during Walden

1978 Huskies Record 7-4 (loss)
1979 Huskies Record 9-3 (loss)
1980 Huskies Record 9-3 (loss)
1981 Huskies Record 10-2 (loss)
1982 Huskies Record 10-2 (win)
1983 Huskies Record 8-4 (win)
1984 Huskies Record 11-1 (loss)
1985 Huskies Record 7-5 (win)
1986 Huskies Record 8-3-1 (loss)

2 of Walden’s 3 wins were actually during the bottom of husky team performance over the decade.

And 1 was at their upper performance in 1982.

During that span the Huskies never posted a losing season.

Yet Walden posted a losing season 6 out of 9 times regardless of how the Huskies performed.

Conclusions: Jim Walden won 1/3 of the Apple cups he coached in beating the lower performance husky teams in the decade twice, and one time beating the huskies when they were at the upper performance.

His legacy is grossly over exaggerated (mostly due to his own jawing and fools that believe him)

He set the stage for WSU having an attitude of being a crappy team and program but “it’s okay if we beat the huskies occasionally when they are having a down year” Which is a poor attitude and detrimental to building sustained program success.

He was run out of the state of Iowa and came back to the only place dumb enough to take him in and let him run his mouth.

He lobbied for Paul Wulff who set the program back tremendously.

He publically lobbied for Wulff not to be fired and said it was a mistake and defended Wulff among one of the worst spans in program history.

He tried to undermine Leach when he first got here yapping to the press about “he wouldn’t do things this way and Leach is hurting his profession, and other various stupid things that once again...hurt the program as a whole.

Jim Walden had repeated behavior that hurt the program.

- losing more than winning and thinking it’s okay as long as you win 1/3 Apple Cups. (Wrong attitude for program building/success)

- getting run out of town after not winning a game but somehow thinking that he should tell a program who to hire

- defending that person despite the poorest performance of all time for the program. Chastising critics and administration for wanting to go another direction after said performance

- throwing dirt on the new guy as he just walks in the door instead of supporting the team and new coach

F.uck Jim Walden. F.uck him F.uck his blowhard has been never was “legacy” the day he is dead in the dirt is the day WSU can move forward.

Tron....you are truly a numbers guy. But sometimes you look at some really obscure numbers that you then make a conclusion. For example, you use the blue chips study by a kid 2000 miles away that has no perspective on the UW classes or WSU's for that matter. Yes, if teams were built on 7 and four players respectively I would agree with your assessment. But let's look at some facts.

UW had two bookends in Curt Marsh (first round pick of the Raiders and Randy VanDivier. Both came to campus at 6'5" 280. As freshman. Curt Marsh was an All American from Snohomish. He didn't give WSU a sniff. Well we did get his teammate, Ken Emil (SIC) a 5'11" inside linebacker who weighed maybe 205 pounds. UW recruited Doug Martin a first round pick of the Vikings at DE, we had Brian Flones a 210 NG.

Marsh comes in at 280, Utley 10 years later comes in at 235. Millard and Williams came in at 210. Walden had to take kids that were developmental.

The fact we had 4 blue chippers the study doesn't reveal two played the same position, and one never played during the era the study was made.

You can talk about how the chasm grew when the TV era came about, but UW was routinely on TV back in the James days.

And you dismiss the depth of the program, the other 150 or so kids recruited at that time. Heck, it was a time when the limit was 95 so UW could take another 10 kids from the state and have them sit. With TV, the way the UW control the market (1987 Apple Cup wasn't shown live because the UW refused to move the game to 3:30). But enough about talent discrepancy.

Walden did some really good things for the program. His mouth kept us relevant believe it or not. He was vocal about games being played in Pullman. And yes he pissed off plenty of people from Spokane.

Should Walden ever be mentioned in the same breath as play-caller or even as an organizer as Leach? Nope. But his value was far beyond that. Yes, he is old school, just like Doba. Doba wouldn't pouch another teams recruits. In a perfect world there would be that gentleman's agreement. But that isn't realistic. Walden had a tough time with Leach for very personal reasons. Not because Leach was Leach, but rather he knew first hand what a coaching change meant to the kids left behind and was HYPER sensitive to it. Yeah, I wish he would have just shut up. But stop BLAMING Walden for what Floyd, Sterk and Moos did and that was to hire Wulff. He didn't sign the check, he didn't have the authority to hire Wulff.

Walden gave close to 3% of his gross earnings to help the program after he retired. Leach just at WSU would have to donate 750,000 just to match that percentage. (doesn't include Tech salary). So yeah I cut Walden some slack, he put his money where his heart was.

But you talk about us slowly closing the talent gap and you mention four skill players. What about lineman? And what was disheartening is UW lost Danny Shelton, Marcus Peters and two other players in the first three rounds of the NFL draft in 2015. They had a freshman QB and they beat us by 35.

When you talk about Walden and his record you mention the UW teams were off the years he won. Well, UW was vying for the conference title (win and in ) in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982 and 1983 and in 1984 they went to the Rose Bowl. So not sure how you can diminish those numbers.

But speaking of numbers, Tech was 2-8 vs the state power Texas during Leach's time in Lubbock. Dykes was 3-7. Walden was 3-6 and Leach is currently 1-5, which would mean he would have to win 2 out of the next three years to match Walden's record. What do those numbers tell you?

To me, it may suggest the more athletic teams can beat the air raid and gives it problems. Does it tell me that Walden is a better coach that Leach? Nope. But Walden's offense back in the day caused the Huskies problems because the Cougs were the only ones who ran it in the Pac 10.

After typing all tis, what you do get is numbers lie, and don't tell the whole truth.

 

[Cougatron]

After typing all tis, what you do get is numbers lie, and don't tell the whole truth.

Actually they do tell the truth because numbers aren't your stupid opinion or your emotional bullshit. They are facts. And facts always are better than stupid opinions. Always.

And here are some FACTS for you Ed. FACTS for you.

Jim Walden vs Pac opponents

Here's his conference record every single year.
(1977 - a reference before Walden Cougs went 3-4 in conferece btw)
1978 - 1-8
1979 - 2-6
1980 - 3-4
1981 - 5-2-1
1982 - 2-4-1
1983 - 5-3
1984 - 4-3
1985 - 3-5
1986 - 2-6-1

For a grand total in conference... of 27-41-3

27-41-3 in conference play.

Here let's do Leach. For fun.

1-8
4-5
2-7
6-3
7-2
6-3

For a grand total of 26- 28

Can you show me 3 years in a row of a winning conference record under Walden? No. He only had 2 seasons that were back to back winning conference records.

Walden didn't have to face an Oregon team flush with Phil Knight money.

To give you an idea of just how bad walden was.

Leach would have to go 1-13 over the next 3 years to meet "Walden's standard"

Sorry Ed, but your "Coug Legend" was a fraud. He's always been a fraud and a bullsh*tter. After your generation croaks nobody will care about Walden. He won't be remembered like other coaches from other schools fondly. He will be some guy who coached WSU to mostly 3-4 win seasons.

His legacy is mediocrity and that's all he will ever be, because even at his best that's all he ever was.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

As people mature they learn that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

For those who believe that the numbers on the page tell the whole story, I applaud your simplicity. Certainly, the numbers are facts, assuming that the numbers are accurate. But it is the rare situation that is so black and white that statistics alone tell the whole story.

 

[Observer11]

Honest question - tron, how old are you?

 

[Cougatron]

Honest question - tron, how old are you?

In my late 30s. Old enough remember Walden's disaster at Iowa State and watch the rise of Mike Price, young enough to have traveled and seen a lot of the country and the actual standards of winning programs and how absolutely STUPID and idiotic and low bar setting the Walden lovers are.

 

[CougEd]

Actually they do tell the truth because numbers aren't your stupid opinion or your emotional bullshit. They are facts. And facts always are better than stupid opinions. Always.

And here are some FACTS for you Ed. FACTS for you.

Jim Walden vs Pac opponents

Here's his conference record every single year.
(1977 - a reference before Walden Cougs went 3-4 in conferece btw)
1978 - 1-8
1979 - 2-6
1980 - 3-4
1981 - 5-2-1
1982 - 2-4-1
1983 - 5-3
1984 - 4-3
1985 - 3-5
1986 - 2-6-1

For a grand total in conference... of 27-41-3

27-41-3 in conference play.

Here let's do Leach. For fun.

1-8
4-5
2-7
6-3
7-2
6-3

For a grand total of 26- 28

Can you show me 3 years in a row of a winning conference record under Walden? No. He only had 2 seasons that were back to back winning conference records.

Walden didn't have to face an Oregon team flush with Phil Knight money.

To give you an idea of just how bad walden was.

Leach would have to go 1-13 over the next 3 years to meet "Walden's standard"

Sorry Ed, but your "Coug Legend" was a fraud. He's always been a fraud and a bullsh*tter. After your generation croaks nobody will care about Walden. He won't be remembered like other coaches from other schools fondly. He will be some guy who coached WSU to mostly 3-4 win seasons.

His legacy is mediocrity and that's all he will ever be, because even at his best that's all he ever was.

Tron since you are a numbers guy how many back to back winning seasons did WSU have prior to Jim Walden? Prior to 1981, when was the last time we went to a bowl game? Prior to 1981 when was the last time WSU played for a Rose Bowl?

You mentioned Phil Knight and his money...that was UW late 70's early 80's.

Let me ask- in a 11 game season how many games does Leach win playing three games before the kids are back on campus, play big games and rivalry games on the road (Spokane), practice on concrete because they are sharing their facility with the intramural teams, and get rid of eastern and Wyoming and throw in Tennessee Ohio State, and on the road?

 

[Observer11]

In my late 30s. Old enough remember Walden's disaster at Iowa State and watch the rise of Mike Price, young enough to have traveled and seen a lot of the country and the actual standards of winning programs and how absolutely STUPID and idiotic and low bar setting the Walden lovers are.

you were around 7 or 8 years old when Walden left WSU. Maybe 2 in 1982. Got it.

 

[Cougatron]

Tron since you are a numbers guy how many back to back winning seasons did WSU have prior to Jim Walden? Prior to 1981, when was the last time we went to a bowl game? Prior to 1981 when was the last time WSU played for a Rose Bowl?

You mentioned Phil Knight and his money...that was UW late 70's early 80's.

Let me ask- in a 11 game season how many games does Leach win playing three games before the kids are back on campus, play big games and rivalry games on the road (Spokane), practice on concrete because they are sharing their facility with the intramural teams, and get rid of eastern and Wyoming and throw in Tennessee Ohio State, and on the road?

1972-1973 we had winning conference records 4-3 both years. So just 6 years prior to the "Blowhard Bull$hitter era that is Walden" we already accomplished his "grand achievement"

From 1965 to 1978 a span of 13 years we were bowl eligible 3 times.

1965 (6-5)
1972 (7-4)
1977 (6-5)

All 3 years were winning seasons with 3 different coaches Bert Clark, Jim Sweeney, Warren Powers. Once again highlighting the "great Walden" was a "great Fraud"

"Before the kids are back on campus"

So did everybody else. Here's UW's academic calendar from 1984. "classes begin October 1st"

"Play big games and rivalry games on the road" - Leach has beat the Ducks in their house, USC, in their house, UCLA in their house. He almost beat Auburn in their house.

WALDEN SUCKED ED. HE WAS A CHARLATAN OF A COACH AND NOTHING BUT MEDIOCRE. NO SCHOOL CELEBRATES COACHES WITH MORE LOSING SEASONS THAN WINNING ONES.

 

[Cougatron]

you were around 7 or 8 years old when Walden left WSU. Maybe 2 in 1982. Got it.

Yeah and I was old enough to see that jackass come back to be "color commentator". The first time I ever met him I was like "THIS GUY" You actually LIKE.... THIS GUY. He was so obnoxious. Then I learned about his "history" and basically it was eye-roll land for me from then on when he talked or whenever people talked about him.

Then he screwed us all for Wulff. I never was happier than when Moos booted his ass out. But then he kept running his mouth. Honestly, the guy has major narcism/ attention issues. The only problem is now you have fools thinking he is gospel or something. The guy is a classic case in mediocrity and used car salesman nostalgia.

 

[Observer11]

I said I got it. You were about 2 in 1982.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

1972-1973 we had winning conference records 4-3 both years. So just 6 years prior to the "Blowhard Bull$hitter era that is Walden" we already accomplished his "grand achievement"

From 1965 to 1978 a span of 13 years we were bowl eligible 3 times.

1965 (6-5)
1972 (7-4)
1977 (6-5)

All 3 years were winning seasons with 3 different coaches Bert Clark, Jim Sweeney, Warren Powers. Once again highlighting the "great Walden" was a "great Fraud"

"Before the kids are back on campus"

So did everybody else. Here's UW's academic calendar from 1984. "classes begin October 1st"

"Play big games and rivalry games on the road" - Leach has beat the Ducks in their house, USC, in their house, UCLA in their house. He almost beat Auburn in their house.

WALDEN SUCKED ED. HE WAS A CHARLATAN OF A COACH AND NOTHING BUT MEDIOCRE. NO SCHOOL CELEBRATES COACHES WITH MORE LOSING SEASONS THAN WINNING ONES.

I wish that ED would have done the right thing and let this thread die, but since it's still breathing, I just wanted to point out that you just made a big deal out of 3 winning seasons in 13 years while downplaying that WSU had winning seasons in a stretch of 3 out of 4 seasons under Walden. That kind of bullsh!t debating just highlights how you are cherrypicking to justify your hate of Walden.

You also mention that Leach has been able to beat Oregon despite all their money. Our record against Oregon the last few years is underwhelming for a couple different reasons. 1) We haven't faced the Duck's starting QB since 2014 when they beat us 38-31. In 2015, we faced Lockie instead of Adams. In 2016, we got Prukop instead of Herbert. In 2017, we faced Burmeister instead of Herbert. 2) Oregon has pretty much stunk the last two seasons with an overall record of 11-14. Again, they've been playing without their starting QB a lot in that time. So, while a win is a win is a win......let's not pretend that WSU has been getting Oregon's best shot in a while.

We all realize that Leach is a better coach than Walden and most of us realize that Walden is greater in his own mind than the reality of what he accomplished. You are still wrong when you try to pretend that he didn't have a very positive impact on WSU. So wrong.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

1972-1973 we had winning conference records 4-3 both years. So just 6 years prior to the "Blowhard Bull$hitter era that is Walden" we already accomplished his "grand achievement"

The "winning conference records" in 1972 and 1973 was kind of interesting to me so I had to look it up. The conference teams we beat were:

1972
4-7 Oregon
2-9 OSU
6-5 Stanford
8-3 UW

1973
2-9 Oregon
2-9 OSU
4-7 Cal
2-9 UW

The 1972 squad was a legitimately good team. That 1973 team went 0-6 against teams with winning records and all but one were double digit losses. The Pac-8 sucked in 1973 and so did our team. We were just lucky that the other NW schools were even worse.

 

[Loyal Coug]

In my late 30s. Old enough remember Walden's disaster at Iowa State and watch the rise of Mike Price, young enough to have traveled and seen a lot of the country and the actual standards of winning programs and how absolutely STUPID and idiotic and low bar setting the Walden lovers are.

you were around 7 or 8 years old when Walden left WSU. Maybe 2 in 1982. Got it.

Explains a lot, doesn't it?

Yet some adults in this room continue to try to use reason to argue the endless point with a relative child. Reminds me of trying to reason with my kids when they were 2 or 3.

I made it to the field in 1982 and got a hand on the second goalpost. To this day I wish I had gotten a truck and some buddies the next day and pulled a post or two out of the river. Could have hacked that puppy up into little 2" lengths and made some coin.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

You guys are spending too much time on this topic. Maybe you need more to do at work/home?

 

[Cougatron]

So wrong.

So Wrong and Walden go together absolutely perfectly. Want to see a recent public statement where he was wrong.

"“Personally, I don’t know. I’d say it’s a mistake,” former Nebraska assistant turned coach and radio commentator Jim Walden told Land of 10 when asked about Frost’s Huskers-Knights juggle. “I have mixed emotions. I think it’s admirable for him to want to do that, or [that] the players might want him to do it.

“If one of his successors had been picked on his staff to do the job, then I’d say he needs to leave and go to Nebraska and let him get on with it. My history tells me that lame-duck coaches don’t usually do a very good job at bowl games.”

Source

Walden's "history" has no actual understanding of winning a bowl game because he never won one as a head coach.

JIM WALDEN HAS ZERO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING AND TALKING ABOUT.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

So Wrong and Walden go together absolutely perfectly. Want to see a recent public statement where he was wrong.

"“Personally, I don’t know. I’d say it’s a mistake,” former Nebraska assistant turned coach and radio commentator Jim Walden told Land of 10 when asked about Frost’s Huskers-Knights juggle. “I have mixed emotions. I think it’s admirable for him to want to do that, or [that] the players might want him to do it.

“If one of his successors had been picked on his staff to do the job, then I’d say he needs to leave and go to Nebraska and let him get on with it. My history tells me that lame-duck coaches don’t usually do a very good job at bowl games.”

Source

Walden's "history" has no actual understanding of winning a bowl game because he never won one as a head coach.


JIM WALDEN HAS ZERO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING AND TALKING ABOUT.

WSU got whacked in the Rose Bowl with a lame duck coach. I did a search for lame duck coaches and found an article saying that ASU was 0-4 with lame duck coaches in bowl games. There are plenty of instances where a lame duck coach wins but plenty more where they don't.

I'm not sure that the results of the Peach Bowl is meaningful in a discussion about Walden's knowledge of the sport.

 

[CougEd]

Tron...I will ask one last time...was Walden in the athletic department or in the Presidents chair when Wulff was hired? Was he on the hiring committee like Moos was? Put the BLAME where it belongs.

Say I am related to John Schneider through marriage. I recommend you to to him because I view you great with analytics. You are a numbers guy. They have 100 other candidates and interview them all, and because of your ties to the NW, you said the right things in the interview and they pull the trigger and hire you. In two years they say to me this Tron guy pulls data and formulates the wrong conclusions. He has the conclusion first and then works on the data. We have to fire him. Why would I be to blame for the Seahawk's hiring you? I don't write the checks or do the hiring.

This is on Sterk, Moos, and Floyd. Period end of story.

 

[CougEd]

Tron,this is a serious question, you want me to believe you are almost 40? You have this much hostility from a game against USC and that era which is miles in the rear?

As to Walden, who ever said he was GREAT? He was great for WSU. He was the right guy at a very hard time. His accomplishments went far past wins and losses. Believe me when I tell you (when you were supposedly in diapers) the Pac 10 was looking for ways to rid themselves of the financial albatross in OSU and WSU. If it were not for Walden and the success he had in 1981, and against the Huskies the big three who ran the conference (USC, UW, UCLA) would have voted to get rid of them. Mike Leach would be coaching in the WAC right now.

When I say play rivalry games on the road,l and not talking about Oregon in Autzen stadium, I am talking about our home games. USC either chose not to play us or they would never come to Pullman. Their first trip to Pullman after I believe 40 years was in 1986. UCLA finally came to Pullman in either 79 or 80. They hadn't stepped foot in Pullman in about 35 years. UW? I believe it was 57 to 82. So I am not talking about going on the road for road games, I am talking about going on the road for home games.

The student body not being on campus- you are correct. UW started late as well. One small nuance you seem to miss. Pullman being a college town cant come close to filling half of Martin stadium (20,000) with just the towns people. Husky stadium could be filled two times over with people in a 30 mile radius back in the day. Plus half the student body or more lived in the Puget Sound region back then so they COULD attend the games and it would have been a 30 minute drive. You do get that difference don't you?

As to the win loss record of WSU, how many winning seasons had they since their last Rose Bowl season, and how many winning seasons did they have since world war II. some 40 years before you were born? Back to back winning seasons? 50/51, 57/58, and I guess 72/73. 3 in 40 years. It is not like there is a rich tradition. And you do get why WSU did struggle in the old Pac 8, right?

Leach said he had to have a football ops building and needs an indoor facility. Take away the ops building, make Leach work in Bohler gym and have the team share the weight room with the student body, you think Leach would be accomplishing what he has?

So to answer a few of the questions-

Walden beat his state rival 3-9 seasons when WSU was dominate in the conference. He beat them when UW could put another 10 instate kids on scholie, like a Cole Madison, a Joe Dahl, and Andre Dillard to name a few. Yet Walden won in that UW dominate era 3 out of 9 times. When I say show me hope that Leach can match that and win 2/3 to match it, you give me by 2021 the talent deficit will be closed. Leach, and more importantly his system was 2-8 against Texas, and so far 1-5 against UW in an era when UW is replacing kids like Shelton and Marcus Peters(first rounders) and we get beat 45-10. The point being is UW is winning and beating us with their young teams when we have more experience. It could be a simple answer that the Air Raid doesn't match up well in certain areas, and maybe it is those rivalry games is one of those certain areas.

Walden took a team bowling for first time in 50 years. WSU played for the Rose Bowl for the first time in 50 year. He had one of the four back to back winning seasons since 1930.

And most important, he kept us viable in the Pac 10 so we could get to the point where Price took us, and hopefully Leach can as well.

 

[Cougatron]

Leach, and more importantly his system was 2-8 against Texas, and so far 1-5 against UW in an era when UW is replacing kids like Shelton and Marcus Peters

It wasn't just Texas Leach had to contend with. Texas Tech was in the South Division of the Big XII which had Texas AND Oklahoma AND Texas A&M. Those 3 schools were massive titans in that area.

Leach did beat Texas twice in his 10 years.

But during his 10 years at Texas Tech

Oklahoma appeared in the national title game in 2000,2003-2004
Texas in 2005, 2009

So out of the 10 years he coached in the South Division of the Big XII a member of the South division appeared in the National Title game 60% of the time.

To give you an equal comparison Ed. That would be like the Pac 12 North sending a team to the National Title game 4 out of the 6 years he has been coaching at WSU. That's how DOMINANT that division was during that span, and we beat Texas during that span which was a HUGE deal, but also we played Oklahoma who beat us 34-14 in the rose bowl in the 2002 season.

So when we were at our best football span in our history we had some trouble with that division when they were on their A game, and we faced them in the early part of their success, not in the late part.

In 2008 while we were watching the Cougs barely muster 2 wins with Paul Wulff that very same year Leach knocked off #1 Texas



And here's the thing you don't understand. Leach is doing it here. He's already done it.

Last second wins Rutgers, Oregon, UCLA, heck he was a missed field goal away from putting away Stanford 3 times in a row.

Walden poisoned WSU with thinking that its okay to lose most of the time all throughout the season and if we just beat the huskies occasionally (1/3 of the time) everything is "A OKAY"

It's not. It's a terrible attitude and standard to have, and it really hurt WSU and it hurt WSU when he came back and was color commentator, it hurt WSU when he lobbied for Wulff, it hurt WSU when he threw dirt on Leach when he just got here.

All of that did WSU a giant disservice.

Walden in his first six years do you know how many times he beat the Huskies? twice. He was 2-4 his first six years. Leach is 1-5.

Walden also was 0-4 his first 4 years. He had 1 good run beating the Huskies 3 out of 4 years but that's all he had. That's it.

Paul Wulff was 1-3 his first 4 years. Is that to declare him a "Cougar Coaching LEGEND" NO. It's not. but that beat the huskies once in a while but be a terribly bad program IS the Walden standard.

Would Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Alabama, LSU put a a guy who has four 3 win seasons and two 4 win seasons on a pedestal if he beat the rival 1/3 of the time. No Ed. No they wouldn't. They would have fired the guy and burned every single trace of him from memory.

Because the program had deteriorated so badly under Wulff/Walden watch we have to essentially build from scratch, and Leach has had 3 winning seasons for us. Which is rare beyond rare for our program, and the talent gap will close.

Leach in his last 5 years at Texas Tech
Was 3-2 vs Oklahoma
Was 4-1 vs A&M
Was 1-4 vs Texas (beating Texas when they were ranked #1)

All 3 of those schools were light years ahead of Texas in terms of talent and resources, but 2 out of 3 he had a better record against his last 5 years and the 1 he didn't he knocked off when they were #1 in the country (and subsequently went to the National title game the very next year)

The more you cling to Walden the more you cling to being a loser most of the time with no growth to really compete with the Huskies except for those rare occasional moments.

Leach will be able to beat the Huskies when that talent gap closes. We aren't that far away. The Huskies in recruiting are about as good as they are gonna get in recruiting. We have room for growth, and every year the gap gets closer and closer.

But to show you just how hard that is because we've been so far behind. Jason Gesser never won Apple Cup.

From 1999-2002 Durring one of our best runs. We came up 0-4.

I don't rip on Mike Price for that. I know how hard it is to win, but what I don't do is make an excuse for Walden who was a terrible coach MOST of his tenure for winning just that game a few times. That's the equivalent of celebrating Wulff for being 2-10 but winning the Apple Cup, or Leach doing it in 2012 with a 3 win season.

I want the program to be strong and healthy and to grow, and what happens eventually is that we aren't celebrating that time that 1 guy won 3 apple cups out of 9 seasons. We are celebrating winning multiple apple cups on the regular AND being a good program.

Sorry Walden filled your brain wish donkey sh*t. But that's all he was. Donkey Sh*t[/QUOTE]

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I've already decided Leach will not beat Petersen ever ever...or ever win a conference title.

But still, beating USC, Furd, Utah, and Oregon instead in a single season isn't too bad.

 

[Cougatron]

I've already decided Leach will not beat Petersen ever ever...or ever win a conference title.

But still, beating USC, Furd, Utah, and Oregon instead in a single season isn't too bad.

I think he will beat him. I actually think it is coming in the next few years. Browning is a Senior. Gaskin is a Senior. Six of 11 guys are seniors on offense.

On defense there are a bunch of seniors as well.

We should be hitting our stride in a few years with a much better-talented group while they are trying to keep the standards high after losing a lot of senior leadership. We'll get em.

We also have seen some of Peterson's assistants start to leave for HC jobs.

Just recently you had Jonathan Smith leave to be HC of Oregon State.
you have Wilcox at Cal.

The big ones to leave next will be Kwiatkowski and Jimmy Lake.

If someone makes a run at Kiwatkowski/Jimmy lake in the next couple years (which I imagine someone will) Honestly Kwiatkowski is the real reason Peterson is successful. He's the assistant that has been with him the longest, and he's basically his best assistant hands down.

If Kwiatkowski gets a HC job the dominos will start to fall for UW.

Jimmy Lake though is also getting a lot of offers. And they upgraded him to "Co-Defensive Coordinator"


The three things I am watching regarding UWs hegemony are

1. Our talent gap (this is something we can control)
2. Kwiatkowski/Lake movement
3. UW Senior turnover/replenishment of talent

If there are shifts in those 3 things the series will turn in our favor. If 2/3 happen they will Turn. If #1 happens it will Turn.

If all 3 happen it will be a disaster for UW and could lead to a collapse / Petersen taking a high profile job before the ship sinks. Kwiatkowski is critical to his/UW success.

 

[Loyal Coug]

You guys are spending too much time on this topic. Maybe you need more to do at work/home?

I've already decided Leach will not beat Petersen ever ever...or ever win a conference title.

But still, beating USC, Furd, Utah, and Oregon instead in a single season isn't too bad.

What happened to this above?

Flat and Ed need to move on. Arguing with a child is pointless. Listening, guys?

That said, this is pretty funny. Our young, innocent pal Tron rants on Walden some more because he "only" went 3-6 in Apple Cup, but CML gets a pass for going 1-5 and Price gets a pass for going 3-11. Because we have been so far behind! Ok, so we weren't behind the mutts in talent back in the late 70's to mid-80's? Now I will take your advice, How, and move on.

Tron's wisdom:
The more you cling to Walden the more you cling to being a loser most of the time with no growth to really compete with the Huskies except for those rare occasional moments.

Leach will be able to beat the Huskies when that talent gap closes. We aren't that far away. The Huskies in recruiting are about as good as they are gonna get in recruiting. We have room for growth, and every year the gap gets closer and closer.

But to show you just how hard that is because we've been so far behind. Jason Gesser never won Apple Cup.

From 1999-2002 Durring one of our best runs. We came up 0-4. I don't rip on Mike Price for that.

 

[CougEd]

It wasn't just Texas Leach had to contend with. Texas Tech was in the South Division of the Big XII which had Texas AND Oklahoma AND Texas A&M. Those 3 schools were massive titans in that area.

Leach did beat Texas twice in his 10 years.

But during his 10 years at Texas Tech

Oklahoma appeared in the national title game in 2000,2003-2004
Texas in 2005, 2009

So out of the 10 years he coached in the South Division of the Big XII a member of the South division appeared in the National Title game 60% of the time.

To give you an equal comparison Ed. That would be like the Pac 12 North sending a team to the National Title game 4 out of the 6 years he has been coaching at WSU. That's how DOMINANT that division was during that span, and we beat Texas during that span which was a HUGE deal, but also we played Oklahoma who beat us 34-14 in the rose bowl in the 2002 season.

So when we were at our best football span in our history we had some trouble with that division when they were on their A game, and we faced them in the early part of their success, not in the late part.

In 2008 while we were watching the Cougs barely muster 2 wins with Paul Wulff that very same year Leach knocked off #1 Texas

View embedded media

And here's the thing you don't understand. Leach is doing it here. He's already done it.

Last second wins Rutgers, Oregon, UCLA, heck he was a missed field goal away from putting away Stanford 3 times in a row.

Walden poisoned WSU with thinking that its okay to lose most of the time all throughout the season and if we just beat the huskies occasionally (1/3 of the time) everything is "A OKAY"

It's not. It's a terrible attitude and standard to have, and it really hurt WSU and it hurt WSU when he came back and was color commentator, it hurt WSU when he lobbied for Wulff, it hurt WSU when he threw dirt on Leach when he just got here.

All of that did WSU a giant disservice.

Walden in his first six years do you know how many times he beat the Huskies? twice. He was 2-4 his first six years. Leach is 1-5.

Walden also was 0-4 his first 4 years. He had 1 good run beating the Huskies 3 out of 4 years but that's all he had. That's it.

Paul Wulff was 1-3 his first 4 years. Is that to declare him a "Cougar Coaching LEGEND" NO. It's not. but that beat the huskies once in a while but be a terribly bad program IS the Walden standard.

Would Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Alabama, LSU put a a guy who has four 3 win seasons and two 4 win seasons on a pedestal if he beat the rival 1/3 of the time. No Ed. No they wouldn't. They would have fired the guy and burned every single trace of him from memory.

Because the program had deteriorated so badly under Wulff/Walden watch we have to essentially build from scratch, and Leach has had 3 winning seasons for us. Which is rare beyond rare for our program, and the talent gap will close.

Leach in his last 5 years at Texas Tech
Was 3-2 vs Oklahoma
Was 4-1 vs A&M
Was 1-4 vs Texas (beating Texas when they were ranked #1)

All 3 of those schools were light years ahead of Texas in terms of talent and resources, but 2 out of 3 he had a better record against his last 5 years and the 1 he didn't he knocked off when they were #1 in the country (and subsequently went to the National title game the very next year)

The more you cling to Walden the more you cling to being a loser most of the time with no growth to really compete with the Huskies except for those rare occasional moments.

Leach will be able to beat the Huskies when that talent gap closes. We aren't that far away. The Huskies in recruiting are about as good as they are gonna get in recruiting. We have room for growth, and every year the gap gets closer and closer.

But to show you just how hard that is because we've been so far behind. Jason Gesser never won Apple Cup.

From 1999-2002 Durring one of our best runs. We came up 0-4.

I don't rip on Mike Price for that. I know how hard it is to win, but what I don't do is make an excuse for Walden who was a terrible coach MOST of his tenure for winning just that game a few times. That's the equivalent of celebrating Wulff for being 2-10 but winning the Apple Cup, or Leach doing it in 2012 with a 3 win season.

I want the program to be strong and healthy and to grow, and what happens eventually is that we aren't celebrating that time that 1 guy won 3 apple cups out of 9 seasons. We are celebrating winning multiple apple cups on the regular AND being a good program.

Sorry Walden filled your brain wish donkey sh*t. But that's all he was. Donkey Sh*t

[/QUOTE]
Too funny....of course Ohio State nor any of those teams wouldn't put up with that record. Have you been to Ohio State and a game there? They have more people outside their stadium partying than we put in our stadium many game days. So why the comparison to OSU? Would Alabama put up with a 1-6 record against Auburn? Would they fire their coach? Of course they would. So why compare us with programs that have a totally different dynamic? And the way you talk about the talent gap being reduced by 2021 we could be looking at 1-9. Why you don't get where the UW has beat us and why is beyond me. You mentioned four 4 star kids and that is your idea where are closing the gap. Not ONE of them is a Dlineman or Olineman. UW handled us because we couldn't control Vea. UW could rush three against five and handled us. Where is our Vea, where is our lineman in 2021 that will be able to be that person either getting after the QB or stopping him? Taylor Comfort? Tapa?

Tyler Bruggman was a 4 star recruit. That means jack. Look at the balance of the class and look at the linemen.

You cherry pick so much data I don't even know where to start.

And how has Walden FILLED by brain with anything. What Walden did being the tail end of four coaches in four years, no budget, getting the games back in Pullman, playing for a Rose Bowl, keeping WSU relevant when they could have been jettisoned to the WAC (very real possibility) his record was equal that of the program's history, but under the hardest of circumstances. I know you are a bottom line guy and you just demand results regardless of the contributions and involvement of the fans and AD.

So when when they decide the revenues aren't great enough, and they ask Leach to stick around despite not getting an indoor facility and that we need to sell off a home game to the highest bidder, say USC, and then we have to replace two cupcakes with two body bag games, we will see how the program with thrive or go back to the mean. Based on what I am reading this is a repeated cycle of our fans not contributing enough and the hatchet is out. Not sure Leach will like the new environment.

But I am sure from your computer you will lead the way, drop an extra 10 grand and start the ball rolling. Maybe all that money you save from not buying a premium package from Czone (10.00 dollars a month) maybe that will flow to the athletic department.

 

[Cougatron]

What happened to this above?

Flat and Ed need to move on. Arguing with a child is pointless. Listening, guys?

That said, this is pretty funny. Our young, innocent pal Tron rants on Walden some more because he "only" went 3-6 in Apple Cup, but CML gets a pass for going 1-5 and Price gets a pass for going 3-11. Because we have been so far behind! Ok, so we weren't behind the mutts in talent back in the late 70's to mid-80's? Now I will take your advice, How, and move on.

Tron's wisdom:
The more you cling to Walden the more you cling to being a loser most of the time with no growth to really compete with the Huskies except for those rare occasional moments.

Leach will be able to beat the Huskies when that talent gap closes. We aren't that far away. The Huskies in recruiting are about as good as they are gonna get in recruiting. We have room for growth, and every year the gap gets closer and closer.

But to show you just how hard that is because we've been so far behind. Jason Gesser never won Apple Cup.

From 1999-2002 Durring one of our best runs. We came up 0-4. I don't rip on Mike Price for that.

I don’t rip on him for the 3-6 Apple cups you dummy. I rip on him because you think that is the mark of a “good coach” when he lost way more than he won...AT EVERYTHING.

he Had more losing seasons than winning ones.
He went to 1 bowl game and lost.
He lost his first 4 Apple cups.

You all are stupid for exonerating someone just because they won 3 Apple cups in 9 years with 4 3 win seasons and 2 4 win seasons to go with it.

That is the epitome of celebrating mediocrity.

 

[CougEd]

What happened to this above?

Flat and Ed need to move on. Arguing with a child is pointless. Listening, guys?

That said, this is pretty funny. Our young, innocent pal Tron rants on Walden some more because he "only" went 3-6 in Apple Cup, but CML gets a pass for going 1-5 and Price gets a pass for going 3-11. Because we have been so far behind! Ok, so we weren't behind the mutts in talent back in the late 70's to mid-80's? Now I will take your advice, How, and move on.

Tron's wisdom:
The more you cling to Walden the more you cling to being a loser most of the time with no growth to really compete with the Huskies except for those rare occasional moments.

Leach will be able to beat the Huskies when that talent gap closes. We aren't that far away. The Huskies in recruiting are about as good as they are gonna get in recruiting. We have room for growth, and every year the gap gets closer and closer.

But to show you just how hard that is because we've been so far behind. Jason Gesser never won Apple Cup.

From 1999-2002 Durring one of our best runs. We came up 0-4. I don't rip on Mike Price for that.

When have I ever listened to "How"? BTW did you know Ken Bone got a new gig as an assistant at Pepperdine?

 

[Cougatron]

You know the more I see stupid people argue with me about Walden the more I realize we as a school and as a program deserve 9-40. It really is who you all want us to be.

Win the Apple cup every now and then be a doormat program. A joke laughed at by everyone else nationally. Having good teams kneel and mercy rule us.

That really is what you all want and who you all want to be. Losers that can say they beat the huskies that few times. Pathetic. The sooner your generation dies off the better.

 

[CougEd]

I think he will beat him. I actually think it is coming in the next few years. Browning is a Senior. Gaskin is a Senior. Six of 11 guys are seniors on offense.

On defense there are a bunch of seniors as well.

We should be hitting our stride in a few years with a much better-talented group while they are trying to keep the standards high after losing a lot of senior leadership. We'll get em.

We also have seen some of Peterson's assistants start to leave for HC jobs.

Just recently you had Jonathan Smith leave to be HC of Oregon State.
you have Wilcox at Cal.

The big ones to leave next will be Kwiatkowski and Jimmy Lake.

If someone makes a run at Kiwatkowski/Jimmy lake in the next couple years (which I imagine someone will) Honestly Kwiatkowski is the real reason Peterson is successful. He's the assistant that has been with him the longest, and he's basically his best assistant hands down.

If Kwiatkowski gets a HC job the dominos will start to fall for UW.

Jimmy Lake though is also getting a lot of offers. And they upgraded him to "Co-Defensive Coordinator"


The three things I am watching regarding UWs hegemony are

1. Our talent gap (this is something we can control)
2. Kwiatkowski/Lake movement
3. UW Senior turnover/replenishment of talent

If there are shifts in those 3 things the series will turn in our favor. If 2/3 happen they will Turn. If #1 happens it will Turn.

If all 3 happen it will be a disaster for UW and could lead to a collapse / Petersen taking a high profile job before the ship sinks. Kwiatkowski is critical to his/UW success.

Ummm....they did have that turnover. They lost Shelton in the first round. They lost Peters in the first round, two other player in the first three rounds. Their QB graduated and were starting a kid with a pop gun arm.

We had our entire oline back, good backs, Cracraft and Marks, Dom Williams.

On d we had Allison, dline with experience and we got boat raced in the Apple Cup.

Am I doom and gloom....nope. I would love to see a competitive Apple Cup. But making the assertion the talent gap is closing is crazy. Yes, Peterson will make some mistakes in evaluation and we need to capitalize on those seasons. We need to take care of business when they are breaking in a new QB. We cant get beat in those seasons 45-10.

They will lose Lake but you don't get where Pete K is. He stepped aside as the sole DC and he gave up responsibilities to Lake to keep Lake around. Pete K isn't looking for another gig. One of those rare people who know where he wants to be and what he wants to do.

 

[CougEd]

You know the more I see stupid people argue with me about Walden the more I realize we as a school and as a program deserve 9-40. It really is who you all want us to be.

Win the Apple cup every now and then be a doormat program. A joke laughed at by everyone else nationally. Having good teams kneel and mercy rule us.

That really is what you all want and who you all want to be. Losers that can say they beat the huskies that few times. Pathetic. The sooner your generation dies off the better.

"The sooner your generation dies off the better." If this wasn't such a sad statement about who YOU are I would have guessed you are 17 not 37 and chalked it up to lack of maturity. But I guess I have to chalk it up to something different. What person in the real would would ever say or wish something like that over a f-in game that is played 12 weekends out of the year.

Who said they want to be a doormat program? No one! Who said they want to be 9-40? No one? You do get Mark Jackson the coach of the Warriors was a good coach despite getting fired, and may have had a similar run with the warriors if he was retained after doing a lot of the heavy lifting?

I can praise Walden for what he did in HIS era, and appreciate him keeping the Coug ship alive when three of the big boys were wanting that ship to be mothballed to the WAC, and I can appreciate the work Leach now does HIS era with the FOB and the indoor facility and the Pac 12 money.

 

[CougEd]

I don’t rip on him for the 3-6 Apple cups you dummy. I rip on him because you think that is the mark of a “good coach” when he lost way more than he won...AT EVERYTHING.

he Had more losing seasons than winning ones.
He went to 1 bowl game and lost.
He lost his first 4 Apple cups.

You all are stupid for exonerating someone just because they won 3 Apple cups in 9 years with 4 3 win seasons and 2 4 win seasons to go with it.

That is the epitome of celebrating mediocrity.

Well I wont call you dummy or stupid or any of the adjectives you need to use to somehow convey a point and possibly make yourself feel better. Yes, WSU was below or equal to a mediocre program for the better part of 50 years. The fact Walden changed the dynamics while still being mediocre as you put it was a major accomplishment. You do get Leach would never had taken this gig if we played UW, USC and UCLA in either Seattle or Joe Albi. He would have never taken the gig if there was no FOB planned. He would never had taken this job if he had to share a facility with intramural sports, and there is no way he would have taken it if he was paid 10th in the conference and had to book body bag games at Michigan, Tennessee and Ohio State. So yeah I can celebrate what Walden meant to the program despite doing close to the same as others that had preceded him for the previous 50 years.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I don’t rip on him for the 3-6 Apple cups you dummy. I rip on him because you think that is the mark of a “good coach” when he lost way more than he won...AT EVERYTHING.

he Had more losing seasons than winning ones.
He went to 1 bowl game and lost.
He lost his first 4 Apple cups.

You all are stupid for exonerating someone just because they won 3 Apple cups in 9 years with 4 3 win seasons and 2 4 win seasons to go with it.

That is the epitome of celebrating mediocrity.

OK a-hole, now you are pissing me off.

First of all, YES YOU DID rip on Walden for going 3-6 in Apple Cups. MULTIPLE TIMES.
Second of all, I am not a dummy. I can pretty much guarantee you that my IQ is higher than yours.
Third, I have never said that Walden was a "good coach".
Fourth, I am not stupid (see 2 above). And I have not "exonerated" anyone, including Walden. AND, DUMMY, your use of that word in that context is stupid. Walden was not arrested, charged or convicted of any crime or mortal sin.

Geezus, now I'm as bad as Ed and Flat. No more responding to your posts ever again.

 

[Cougatron]

Well I wont call you dummy or stupid or any of the adjectives you need to use to somehow convey a point and possibly make yourself feel better. Yes, WSU was below or equal to a mediocre program for the better part of 50 years. The fact Walden changed the dynamics while still being mediocre as you put it was a major accomplishment. You do get Leach would never had taken this gig if we played UW, USC and UCLA in either Seattle or Joe Albi. He would have never taken the gig if there was no FOB planned. He would never had taken this job if he had to share a facility with intramural sports, and there is no way he would have taken it if he was paid 10th in the conference and had to book body bag games at Michigan, Tennessee and Ohio State. So yeah I can celebrate what Walden meant to the program despite doing close to the same as others that had preceded him for the previous 50 years.

You have the mind of a loser and it makes perfect sense that your hero is one as well.

 

[CougEd]

You have the mind of a loser and it makes perfect sense that your hero is one as well.

Sure...if not getting so wrapped up in a GAME and having some perspective makes me a loser, then you are correct. I would almost react if I didn't realize it was coming from a 17 year old.

 

[ElComanche]

Different eras ,different generations.it is time to move on. Hopefully.

 

[Glad Cougar]

In the old days, my generation, we directed our thoughts and wishes of ill will on the UW or some other opponent. Now we have a Cougar fan who hopes for some of his fellow Cougars to die off, the sooner the better? Way too much hate in this thread and on this board. Time for me to take a break.

Glad Cougar

 

[CougEd]

OK a-hole, now you are pissing me off.

First of all, YES YOU DID rip on Walden for going 3-6 in Apple Cups. MULTIPLE TIMES.
Second of all, I am not a dummy. I can pretty much guarantee you that my IQ is higher than yours.
Third, I have never said that Walden was a "good coach".
Fourth, I am not stupid (see 2 above). And I have not "exonerated" anyone, including Walden. AND, DUMMY, your use of that word in that context is stupid. Walden was not arrested, charged or convicted of any crime or mortal sin.

Geezus, now I'm as bad as Ed and Flat. No more responding to your posts ever again.

Please don't degrade yourself and attach you to my name : ) Difference between you, I and Flat you guys have limits and have appreciation of your time, energy and saneness. I was hit on the head as a youth, and I have too much free time on my hands today.

 

[Cougatron]

OK a-hole, now you are pissing me off.

First of all, YES YOU DID rip on Walden for going 3-6 in Apple Cups. MULTIPLE TIMES.
Second of all, I am not a dummy. I can pretty much guarantee you that my IQ is higher than yours.
Third, I have never said that Walden was a "good coach".
Fourth, I am not stupid (see 2 above). And I have not "exonerated" anyone, including Walden. AND, DUMMY, your use of that word in that context is stupid. Walden was not arrested, charged or convicted of any crime or mortal sin.

Geezus, now I'm as bad as Ed and Flat. No more responding to your posts ever again.

You make excuses for Walden.


HERE FOR YOU AND FOR ED CAN SEE THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE APPLE CUP VISUALIZED. TAKE A LOOK AT IT. LOOK WHERE WALDEN CAME IN.

I marked where Walden came in with a Red Arrow.

The series was actually decent BEFORE walden showed up. To illustrate this

there were 20 wins before Walden. After Walden 12.

Walden helped send us in a disparity with UW. He continued to do that when he came back in 2000. And Wulff was his protege extraordinaire.

He SUCKED.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Tron, just a final thought on this thread before I move on. We are going to be starting our #3 QB this year, we lost an OL and DL to the NFL and graduated other depth on both lines. While our receiving corps is deep, it's still relatively unproven (although getting Lewis back helps). We lost 2 of our top 3 running backs. There are a lot of questions this year. Although it's unlikely to happen this year, WSU has finished 3-9 twice with Leach as our coach so it's possible that it could happen again. If that happens, Leach's record at WSU would be 38-44 (.463). Walden's record at WSU was 44-52-4 (0.460). If things go south and WSU struggles for the next year or two, would Leach's winning percentage overall mean that he was a total loser and an embarrassment to the WSU fanbase? I know your kneejerk reaction would be to blame Wulff, but the combined winning percentage for the three coaches prior to Walden was at 0.327, so it's not like he started with a team that was used to success. I think you are so caught up in hating Walden because of Wulff that you can't see that the difference between Leach and Walden is not as distant as you'd like to think it is. Bear in mind that our record in 1981 (8-3-1) is better than any record that Leach has posted thus far.

 

[Observer11]

Tron, just a final thought on this thread before I move on. We are going to be starting our #3 QB this year, we lost an OL and DL to the NFL and graduated other depth on both lines. While our receiving corps is deep, it's still relatively unproven (although getting Lewis back helps). We lost 2 of our top 3 running backs. There are a lot of questions this year. Although it's unlikely to happen this year, WSU has finished 3-9 twice with Leach as our coach so it's possible that it could happen again. If that happens, Leach's record at WSU would be 38-44 (.463). Walden's record at WSU was 44-52-4 (0.460). If things go south and WSU struggles for the next year or two, would Leach's winning percentage overall mean that he was a total loser and an embarrassment to the WSU fanbase? I know your kneejerk reaction would be to blame Wulff, but the combined winning percentage for the three coaches prior to Walden was at 0.327, so it's not like he started with a team that was used to success. I think you are so caught up in hating Walden because of Wulff that you can't see that the difference between Leach and Walden is not as distant as you'd like to think it is. Bear in mind that our record in 1981 (8-3-1) is better than any record that Leach has posted thus far.

Tron was 1 in 1981.

 

[Cougatron]

Tron, just a final thought on this thread before I move on. We are going to be starting our #3 QB this year, we lost an OL and DL to the NFL and graduated other depth on both lines. While our receiving corps is deep, it's still relatively unproven (although getting Lewis back helps). We lost 2 of our top 3 running backs. There are a lot of questions this year. Although it's unlikely to happen this year, WSU has finished 3-9 twice with Leach as our coach so it's possible that it could happen again. If that happens, Leach's record at WSU would be 38-44 (.463). Walden's record at WSU was 44-52-4 (0.460). If things go south and WSU struggles for the next year or two, would Leach's winning percentage overall mean that he was a total loser and an embarrassment to the WSU fanbase? I know your kneejerk reaction would be to blame Wulff, but the combined winning percentage for the three coaches prior to Walden was at 0.327, so it's not like he started with a team that was used to success. I think you are so caught up in hating Walden because of Wulff that you can't see that the difference between Leach and Walden is not as distant as you'd like to think it is. Bear in mind that our record in 1981 (8-3-1) is better than any record that Leach has posted thus far.

You live in hypotheticals I live in reality.

Walden was a shit coach.
Leach has us with 3 winning seasons in a row.
We got the #1 RB from the state of Colorado the #1 QB from the state of Utah and an Army All American at WR from the state of Washington. THIS YEAR.

WSU finished 3-9 twice because of Wulff stink as I explained with how recruiting classes cycle.

Year 4 I said 7-9 wins if the defense is good. Which it did get to a good place and we were on our way as Wulff stink was rinsed away.

Now we still have Walden brain dead formaldehyde stench apparently but those people will either learn or die off eventually.

Leach would have to go 1-13 in conference play to be where Walden was at in year 9. Not going to happen.