Good grief Tron. Good job going to wiki. But your numbers and information have to have context.
I said Doba was thought of more highly of than Zimmer. I didn’t say prior to 1993. What you don’t get is many around the cougar community thought price was a dud, a clapping clown . They thought he should be fired. Since you are into research look up 1990 and tell me what you find. Tell me about the player revolt. Like Price, many thought the ENTIRE staff was over their head. As to Zimmer he continued to grow as a coach, but he wasn’t some shining star that programs were after . People didn’t say let’s go after that hot young coach. Grinch right or wrong was a mover . People knew he was going places . Zimmer has the right one contact. But in your research why did you leave out 1989, 1990, and 1991, and why did you leave out the most important stat? Scorning defense . When I say your stats don’t mean squat cause there is context to them. I am glad Zimmer ran with the opportunity. Since you know how well coaches are respected from an era you weren’t even around , tell me all the offers Joe Tiller had and how did he do at WSU ?
But I do have one inportant question. Are you emboldened by your anonymity on this board. You now have said several things I tend to believe you wouldn’t say live . One, “you can’t wait until people of my generation are taking a dirt nap and two you have now called me a dummy and three questioned my donations .
So I have two questions . One if I were to leave my phone number here would you dare say those things live over the phone ? And two, would you like to make a large wager over something you believe you are right on and I have yet to prove you wrong ...but I can . And since you don’t think I donate if I can’t prove my informations is correct I will donate 30000 to the program in the name of Tron...BUT if I win you have to donate it in the name of Eric and Mark . My guess is you will be what Mike Damone called Rat in Fast Time at Ridgemont High ...
Stats are fact Ed. it is the result, and the result has no emotions or perceptions attached to it. It is just the result.
I am not emboldened by anything, not by anonymity, not by being right, by absolutely nothing. When you see the words that are typed here and they are harsh and blunt it is specifically because of your willingness to remain intransigent in the face of facts that contradict your assertions. I look at all factors when I evaluate something and ask myself some very important questions. Why is it this way? What are the reasons behind it being this way? What are the historical results? Are there similar instances upon which I can draw a comparative sample. That is analysis Ed. That's how analysis works.
You on the other hand come in with a line of thinking that is. Focused only on your own perceptions, completely devoid of comparative analysis, play entirely to your own personal bias, and lack any objective thought.
When you make statements like "Jim Walden was the best coach we ever had", that is something that is factually inaccurate through analysis. Jim Walden's performance only lives in your own head of that caliber. When analyzed the actual performance, over his career, it is clear that he is not, but save from your "fond memories" you refuse to accept that reality. You cling to your perception in spite of the actual historical facts, and then make excuses to try and justify your warped perception.
When you make statements like "the 2014 class was a disaster" it is very clear that the class was not a disaster because it produced several players that contributed immensely to the success of the program over the past 3 years. If the class was a total disaster, then there would be no contributions of that kind, nor any success after that class. That would be a "total disaster", but that is not the case, and when presented with information that shows not only the number of players that had success, but also the number of players who can possibly reach the apex of contributing from a 25 player class in conjunctions with other players from 25 player classes you refuse to accept it as fact. Your mind is made up, you went with your emotional evaluation instead of an analytical one, and so despite contrary information provide you are stuck living in your own warped and skewed view point.
It is okay to be wrong Ed. That's how you learn. Nothing bad happens to you if you are wrong about your perceptions. Your perceptions just become better. But if you refuse to learn, then guess what. You will always be wrong, and that's kind of the problem, that despite being proven wrong you never give yourself the opportunity to reevaluate and recalibrate your viewpoints so they can be right with a sharp perception.
In the end you end up doing yourself a disservice as a fan because instead of absolutely being thrilled and enjoying the success we are having today you are bitterly clinging to your preconceived notions.
When you look at the history of WSU having sustained sucess is NOT the history of the program, and that is something that all fans SHOULD want. So if you want to do something you have never done before, then you have to do things differently than you have done in the past, and that may be hard for some people that cling to old ideas and preconceived notions.
Mike Price for as great as he was as a coach, followed a boom bust model for success. He was excellent in the 4 year cycle for success building a team up from youth till they were upperclassmen... (then getting that breakout year) and then having to do it all over again.
The problem with such a model is that well you have a lot of down years in between the great ones. Towards the end of his tenure he figured out how to make it more sustainable and thus the consecutive winning seasons, which was great. Wish we had kept him but it is what it is and we tried to maintain that success with Doba.
The problem was Doba wasn't nearly as good as Price at maintaining the success, and the program slid backwards towards medicority with no real success. Just consistent medicority.
Doba went (after the 10 year season)
5-7
4-6
6-6
5-7
There was no elevation, just a complete flatline of medicority, and for WSU as a program that hurt.
But when WSU was looking to make a return to elevation we went backwards with Wulff, and Walden was a part of pushing for that. His way of thinking is not conducive to long term success, he's never accomplished that anywhere he has been in his career.
the result is 9-40 and for 4 years when WSU needed to take the next step forward we took a step back.
Then Leach enters who had to turn around the program but had his work cut out for him. The drop from Doba and the pitfall from Wulff left the program with an entire generation never seeing WSU be winners, no recruiting pedigree, and just a few smattering of decent players (Buchanon, Long, Williams, etc.) despite the lies of a "magic eye for talent".
The initial revamping of the program and rewiring it for success would be difficult, but Leach delivered in his second season, and despite the bowl game slipping away it was clear that Leach could do things quickly, again there was a setback but then a surge forward in 2015 just like in Price's year 4, but this time it was sustainable. 2016 a winning season, 2017 a winning season, and now WSU is starting to reap the benefits of consistent success.
Is there room for improvement? Absolutely, but the most important thing for the program is the building of consistent sustained success. Upgrading talent, upgrading facilities, upgrading, coaching staff. That is program building and WSU has ALWAYS needed that.
Price was there at the end of his career establishing it, but obviously he left, but here we are again, but this time a school didn't poach our HC (despite the likely possibility of it happening, we lucked out that Tennesse is a tire fire, and now we can enjoy that building process longer).
Walden, Wulff, Doba should not be celebrated for their medicority. You can remember that occasional game they did something well, but that isn't what WSU should be about. It should be about building and sustained success. This includes critiques of Mike Price's boom/bust cyle. The boom is good, the bust is not, but the final years were excellent.
Leach is doing something currently for WSU that is exceptionally important for the long standing health of the program, and that should be VERY excited, and should be celebrated. Will he be the "greatest WSU coach" of all time... probably not, but he will be remembered for laying the foundation for that person to arrive if he keeps going. The foundation is something that WSU has never really had, and now that it is being laid it is a very exciting time, and yet you cling to your preconceived bitter ideas, and honestly that does nothing positive for WSU or yourself. It will only leave you being left behind.
